Crickey this hasn't been off the market long

[Ferris Bueller]

Maybe I should start a thread one the 'last real NSX' .... the manual 3.2 pop-up bodyshell. It has the classic lines of the original Senna car but with all the mechanical tweaks of the 02 cars. I think I'll start the premium at £5k ....

regards, Paul

Not all the tweaks, but I get your point, and agree with it. Even if I prefer the looks of the post 02, in LBB at least.

[NoelWatson]

Many debatable points here. I'll pass on the £20k Noble, as most people do.
An E46 may have slightly better brakes but I'm struggling with the "easily keep pace" coment there. I've driven several, including SMG and CS variants and I wouldn't say the above is true. Ditto RS4, Cayman S, Z4M etc. A 360 is faster in a straightline, a 380bhp 355 is not (nor a 993 RS, 996C2/C4), but I know which is faster on any given stretch of road.

The NSX may have "only" 300 ish bhp (I think a few more) but they all pull in the same direction, are completely harnessed and you can wring the neck of every last one.

Of the several hundred cars I have driven the NSX has never been shamed by anything as a driving machine - only a specialist tool can shade it. As an overall package, almost 20 years on, it remains an impressive bit of kit. One can only imagine the meetings held in Modena and Stuttgart circa 1990. Today's supercars are only what they are because the NSX existed.

NSX's biggest problem is people's ignorance.

The NSX may have "only" 300 ish bhp (I think a few more) but they all pull in the same direction, are completely harnessed and you can wring the neck of every last one.

It has around 280-285 as standard

An E46 may have slightly better brakes but I'm struggling with the "easily keep pace" coment there. I've driven several, including SMG and CS variants and I wouldn't say the above is true. Ditto RS4, Cayman S, Z4M etc.

Based on my experience at VMax with a standard NSX, I would say all are faster than the NSX (in a straight line). With intake and exhaust (~300bhp), the NSX is quicker than the Cayman, but I've seen an SMG M3 do 165 at VMax (they can go off tune, but that one was owned by a rolling road operator and was giving ~335bhp at the fly). Maybe hi flow cats will give us a little bit more.....

[havoc]

I'd bet you a pound to a pinch of **** that an NSX is cheaper to run than an E46 M3 by a good margin.

For the same purchase-cost, I'm not so sure. A £25k M3 will probably still have BMW dealer-warranty, and unless there's any major engine-problems they shouldn't need big work until 100k. A £25k NSX will be 10y.o. and will need stuff looking at - Air-con 'board, caliper reconditioning, etc...

Worse, a £15k NSX or M3 WILL need a fair bit of TLC...

Also, any significant engine-work on either car will be megabucks...I'd put them pretty close in terms of bills, but would wager the younger car would (should) need less.

[Papalazarou]

For the same purchase-cost, I'm not so sure. A £25k M3 will probably still have BMW dealer-warranty, and unless there's any major engine-problems they shouldn't need big work until 100k. A £25k NSX will be 10y.o. and will need stuff looking at - Air-con 'board, caliper reconditioning, etc...

Worse, a £15k NSX or M3 WILL need a fair bit of TLC...

Also, any significant engine-work on either car will be megabucks...I'd put them pretty close in terms of bills, but would wager the younger car would (should) need less.

Martin,

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but I work closey with quite a few BMW franchises and have seen some of the bills for E46 M3's and they're not pretty. General servicing, brakes are expensive as are SMG issues on cars out of warranty, which most are (unless extended - which is unlikely since many have fallen under the £10K mark)How many £25K E46's are there now?.
However, you are right in the respect that both cars can be expensive to service if neglected. As we all know, just because there is a stamp in the service book, doesn't mean it's had the full service (and that's a HUK service, not a Kaz service).
Customers often delete certain parts of the schedule, because they feel it uneccesary, cannot afford it, or sometimes the dealer doesn't understand the requirements of the service.
An ASM was telling me the other day that 25% of their customers were refusing to have brake fluid changed every two years. People buy nice cars then skimp. Most of these cars were still in warranty.


I would doubt that the E46 engine is any more reliable than the NSX motor. There are guys driving NSX's in the states with up to 340K on them, still running the original engine.
Other cars that have been superchaged with well over 100k on them with no issues.

With regard to engine work however, the BM may be cheaper because of the glut of spare parts for them. An independent garage would probably manage a cheap engine swap, whereas obviuosly finding an NSX motor could be a problem.


Cheers,


James.

[TheSebringOne]

The guy who owns the gym I use, brought either a late old shape M3 or an early new shape one (think its the latter) but then found problems with excess engine wear and when the report came back, they found metallic bits in the oil! He got his money back & brought a late old shape XKR. He said BM treated him badly & he wouldn't buy one again!

[AR]

I heard of a few e46 m3 engines going bang and BMW footing the bill. One case in particular was a guy at a dyno day and a brand new BMW engine gave 347 at the fly.

The E46 BMW has that plumber, pub landlord feel about it, not my cup of tea.

The E30 now we are talking!

[Papalazarou]

I heard of a few e46 m3 engines going bang and BMW footing the bill. One case in particular was a guy at a dyno day and a brand new BMW engine gave 347 at the fly.

The E46 BMW has that plumber, pub landlord feel about it, not my cup of tea.

The E30 now we are talking!

The E46 does have a certain image. It lost a great deal of it's original appeal, to the point where it's unrecognisable from the original E30. I saw one the other day in black with black leather and just loved it's boxy simplicity. But then I grey up in the 80's where everything loked like that. I guess some of the recent changes are for the better but there's something special about the E30, even if it is LHD.

Cheers,


James.

[havoc]

James - fair points...and yes - the M3 I drove was a mate's 55-plate which was fully-loaded and immaculate...perhaps not that representative! And I had heard about VANOS bills as well...

E46 image - true...I wanted something special, and the E46 just doesn't look it...now if I'd had Wiesmann money, things could have been different!

(Love the E30's...if I ever emigrate and can't find a good LHD 'teg I'm getting an E30 instead!)

[Boomin33]

Maybe I'm wrong, but the trend I see, over and over again...

Those who currently own an NSX, value their possession and put a price on it that reflects this pride.
OK, so usually a premium has a bias towards their category, or others that are near. eeerr.. uh.... why wouldn't you? and Too Right.

Those who do not actually currently own an NSX seem to go to lengths to rant about how over priced they are.

eerrr... well, then don't buy the damn car !?
There are plently of people out there that £40K relatively means F-All to. If they came on here to research a car they were about to buy, on a relative whim... well you ain't helping your mates out much.. whom btw £35K - £40K might mean the world to.


*
If you didn't like DisneyLand, would you go there just to tell everyone how s h I tE ( or overpriced ) it is ?

No, you wouldn't would you... would be a pretty mean person to derive satisfaction from the upsetting the kids like that.



...

[Papalazarou]

James - fair points...and yes - the M3 I drove was a mate's 55-plate which was fully-loaded and immaculate...perhaps not that representative! And I had heard about VANOS bills as well...

E46 image - true...I wanted something special, and the E46 just doesn't look it...now if I'd had Wiesmann money, things could have been different!

(Love the E30's...if I ever emigrate and can't find a good LHD 'teg I'm getting an E30 instead!)

Yes, the Vanos thing's a pain, more so on the E36's apparently. Just had a look at E46 prices and I stand corrected, there are quite a few for around 25K, but I guess most are out of warranty by now.
I remember when the E46 first came out and I saw a new silver one with red leather in the car park. I wanted one pretty badly then, but as with a lot of new stuff, the appeal fades over time and you're left with something that's not so special. Probably why I've resisted selling the NSX for so long, bar a couple of glitches.

Just a thought about the other discussion. I think that people come to own cars for many reasons. Some see it as their destiny to own a particular marque, some change their car every six months and do not have an allegence to any particular model or brand and some, like I did stumble apon something special and have over four years of great motoring. My point is that there will always be a market for most exciting cars we see in the classified ads on PH. Someone will have a connection with them for whatever reason, despite and often inspite of what's new and what the media are telling us to drive. So yes, Potential NSX owners are buying Caymans, but Cayman owners are also buying NSX's.

Just my thought. Really enjoying this thread FFS!!!


Cheers,


James.