Future of the Forum - Aug/24

[Silver Surfer]

Thanks Kaz

I copy from the Finance and Web server cost thread:

'Hello everyone,

I want to let you all know, that this forum site relies on contributions to pay for the web hosting. It's run non profit, all the contribution money goes into the hosting costs. In the past there was more contributions coming in each year, than the annual costs. However, for the past few years, practically nothing has been coming in contributions, and so the savings have been used to pay the costs. We are in a situation where there are a few months left in the account, to pay for the hosting.

I don't own an NSX anymore. Haven't done so since 2009. It matters to me not one bit, if this site continues to operate or not. When the finances have run out, the site will close.

Regards,
Forumadmin'

On that Thread..there was no answer saying how much fund and how much longer the Forum can last except what was written by Kevin above saying 2 months...

I now am aware if no change then the Forum can go on for approx 2 years even with no additional funding....if upgrade is needed then the cost of this should be shared.. so all members are aware.

This will allow time to work out what is best to try an maintain all the data and info from being lost....even your blogs Kaz.

I am not IT savvy but a few of the members here probably are ..so in this day and age, there got to be a good solution to this.

SS

[Ian_S]

Although I'm a relatively new user I have experience with club & group splits (Nissan GTR forums!) and prefer the idea of the forum and its contents (built up over years of posting on here) being open and available to all, but accepting somene needs ot own it. I'd suggest ownership remains with admins (or other "independent"entity if preferred) and THNSXOC can rename to NSX Drivers Club.

Otherwise keep the name NSXCB.co.uk and consider funding options...If we need funds, either restrict access to certain important/useful areas, see what can be achieved with advertising (suspect not a lot!) or see if annual membership to the forum would attract enough (in my experience voluntary options never work, but some imght consider membership of the forum akin to a club and pay it?).

THNSXOC (renamed to NSX Drivers Club) can contribute to the forum or their members can pay annual membership to NSXCB.co.uk.

[Nick Graves]

Well, that was precisely why the Popular Front of NSX was set up as a company - a motley crue of Honda fanbois isn't really a legal entity for contractual purposes.

Perhaps the simplest solution might be for the company to reverse into the forum - that way, an individual isn't left carrying the can for unpaid web fees or whatever.

That's if they're interested, of course...and if the subscription idea is palatable.

[sorepaws]

In answer to some of the suggestions and options offered by the THNOC Committee - I will add some context to the current situation.

NSXCB was the original organisation for UK owners of the Honda NSX (there was no confusion). In order to provide access to events that required PLi THNOC was formed. The THNOC (The Honda NSX Owners Club) was a group within the NSXCB Forum, as a part of the membership to THNOC it was a pre-requisite that there was Platinum membership of NSXCB. The implication of this was that a THNOC member paying £25 per year was contributing £10 of that to the forum. (Note the 2020/21 THNOC AGM proposed a continuation of the original fee process)

In 2020/21 the THNOC Committee took the decision that the full £25 membership fee would be used in order to setup a website and automated membership payment system. A decision made without consulation with the members (the THNOC constitution allows this). The result of this was that funding to NSXCB forum was removed.

The Forum NSXCB is an open platform for discussion and non PLi events, members are able to organise events and promote activities which are available to all, including events that need a code to register attendance.

THNOC is a closed organisation as required to ensure the conditions of Pli are maintained, and as such only members have access to those events that are promoted/approved by the committee.

The offer being put forward to support the Forum by THNOC while being on the surface a generous offer, it restricts the Forum and could if the THNOC decide be "de-funded" by the Committee at anytime as there is nothing in the current Constitution to prevent that.

If there is anything that I have misunderstood or misrepresented please feel free to comment.

[goldtop]

Thanks for that precis, Mike. I'm getting a bit bamboozled by the walls of text and various names.

(Thankfully, we're not MX5 drivers, there are about eleventy million MX5 clubs.)

[mutley]

In answer to some of the suggestions and options offered by the THNOC Committee - I will add some context to the current situation.

NSXCB was the original organisation for UK owners of the Honda NSX (there was no confusion). In order to provide access to events that required PLi THNOC was formed. The THNOC (The Honda NSX Owners Club) was a group within the NSXCB Forum, as a part of the membership to THNOC it was a pre-requisite that there was Platinum membership of NSXCB. The implication of this was that a THNOC member paying £25 per year was contributing £10 of that to the forum. (Note the 2020/21 THNOC AGM proposed a continuation of the original fee process)

In 2020/21 the THNOC Committee took the decision that the full £25 membership fee would be used in order to setup a website and automated membership payment system. A decision made without consulation with the members (the THNOC constitution allows this). The result of this was that funding to NSXCB forum was removed.

The Forum NSXCB is an open platform for discussion and non PLi events, members are able to organise events and promote activities which are available to all, including events that need a code to register attendance.

THNOC is a closed organisation as required to ensure the conditions of Pli are maintained, and as such only members have access to those events that are promoted/approved by the committee.

The offer being put forward to support the Forum by THNOC while being on the surface a generous offer, it restricts the Forum and could if the THNOC decide be "de-funded" by the Committee at anytime as there is nothing in the current Constitution to prevent that.

If there is anything that I have misunderstood or misrepresented please feel free to comment.

The part in bold is what I have a problem with

[Papalazarou]

The part in bold is what I have a problem with

Agree. I cannot entertain this. For me; No renaming of the club that many of us have been members of for a long time. Nearly 20 years for me and some pre forum.
More crucially, no link in any way to THNOC. Although it may have been set up as a solution, I can only view it as divisive now.
I could never feel ok about giving the reins to those, who I believe do not have the interests of the club at heart.
We don’t need it and we are better off without it. All we need to do is get the funding organised and we are sorted.

[Shawnsx5]

Thank you for your comments, Kaz.

Taking your points in order and using the nomenclature of NSXCB and THNOC.

I think all members views should be considered not just Platinum Members as this is such a small proportion of NSXCB members.

I am happy to talk directly with you about the matters you wish to keep off the public domain including how the matters that led you to leave THNOC can be dealt with to your satisfaction.

The Forum on www.nsxclub.co.uk is a modern user interface forum that is much easier to use in many ways than the current version of v Bulletin for example photos and videos are much easier to upload. The volume of information we have is insignificant compared to NSXCB and I think manual transfer of the most important items would not be difficult. The Forum function is a standard feature of the website package we have but can be disabled which would be my intention as just as I feel having two routes to organising events is not necessary and causes confusion (I have had calls about NSXCB only events in the past) the same is true of having two Forums, one would make more sense. I also propose THNOC website directs members to NSXCB for Forum services.

I note your clarification on the funding issue not being an immediate one as I had assumed based on the various information set out in the thread and the earlier one you linked to. I don’t think amending my post is necessary as your clarification and my acceptance of your point are recorded here. However, I am sure you would like to migrate to the latest version of v Bulletin asap to reduce the real and current risks faced by operating such an out-of-date version which I understand is Version 4.2.4 compared to the current Version 6.0.4. From my research it seems 4.2.4. is from 2017 with many releases of upgrades over the last 7 years that have not been taken.
I further note this statement from vBulletin about V4.
vBulletin 4 End of Life
It is recommended to upgrade to vBulletin 6.X
vBulletin 4.2.5 is end of life and will not be receiving any future development. Warning: vBulletin 4.2.5 is not compatible with PHP 7.2.0 or higher.


Naming is always going to be a sensitive point and my only desire to find a way of minimising the continuing confusion that the current names create, and Kevin did suggest it. I am open to discussing how our respective priorities can be met.

I certainly value your blogs and other content very highly and support the various comments that it is important to retain these.
Please also refer to my answers to Mike’s post.

I want to emphasise the offer presented is a genuine one without hidden agenda designed to support the NSXCB and the wider NSX community which is an objective both of us share. I had written to Simon O in July and offered to discuss how THNOC could help with the funding challenge but having not had any follow up before reading your second thread I thought it best to just to make a proposal in a completely transparent way.

If the weight of opinion is already entrenched and set against the proposal from THNOC please just reject it now so we all avoid wasting time. It will not cause any offence at THNOC.

I am aware there is currently a WhatsApp group with a subset of NSXCB members is that for Platinum members such as myself and will I be invited to join?

Neil

Hi, Neil.
Good to see you posting on here and with logical thinking although some are not clear to me.


[ By the way, as in my post #1, I started this thread by specifically asking for the opinion on
whether to discuss this subject among the Platinum members only or involve everyone
based on the example point of view as per my post.

As the discussion already going on, it may no longer matter but I do hope people will re-visit it. ]


I would like to ask you some questions before posting my additional opinion that I on purposely didn't include in post #1.


Although I hold the administrator right, I have the right to express my opinion that may or may not affect the decision making process.

The discussion with you may include the detail that I would like to keep them off the public domain.

For example, the very reason why I left the Club and asked removal of all references related to me on the Club website.
You already know the reason.
It's not clear from my point of view on how your proposal will affect this.

Also, as I'm not your Club member, I have no idea what kind of forum is running on your end.

If I ask following question publicly, it may require something to be disclosed of your end that may be against the sirit of closed member only forum.
So again, thought best asking you privately and not on here.
Would like to know your view on what will happen to existing posts on there.
Merging them into NSXCB Forum???


[ As I started this thread and asked opinion from others on the public forum, I didn't feel comfortable contacting specific member regarding the specific post privately.

Hence, this latest post from me. ]


Will contact you in the near future.




But I can post something already on the public domain now.

Not sure how soon the wording 'immediate' mean but could you modify your post #16?

Could you modify it in case of causing misunderstanding of the wording 'the immediate' and 'problems' ?

Not sure what the 'immediate funding problem' means but there is none.

We are acting well in advance from the cost efficiency.

Possibly you were referring to the post by forumadmin (Kevin) that 'there was only a few months left' if paying the current level of site running cost.

The post is within the link included in my post #1.

http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?16238-NSXCB-Finances-and-web-server-costs



I already mentioned on here that Kevin didn't know at the time of his writing, the fact that there was already sizeable fund looked after by one of the administrator.
I believe this is the same thing mentioned by Silver Surfer above.

Thank you for your cooperation on this, Neil.



Silver Surfer, hope above answers your question.



Regarding the naming….

For the reason I already stated in my post #1, I support keeping the wording 'nsxcb' as is.

No one owns this Forum and the administrator right holders are just volunteers helping the site.

I'm one of them but don't control the site future.

To backup the above, I even stated in post #29 of the above link that I don't mind losing more than 2,700 blog posts if that helps for the future upgrade.


I'll stop here for now.


Kaz

[Shawnsx5]

Thank you for your comments, Mike.

Using your nomenclature and taking your points about the proposal first:

1. “De funded” Risk. I am confident that with both parties being reasonable this can be avoided for example by all perceived restrictions to fall away if funding ceased. But I would add there is no intention to restrict activities. If the concern is about events that NSXCB wish to attend there would be no restriction, but it would make sense and be most efficient to do that through THNOC. It would also allow all current events led by NSXCB to benefit from PLI for all members of both organisations.

Although it is against my better judgement to perpetuate a discussion about the past history of how we got here as the most important issue is to secure NSXCBs future which is where I think we should focus all our efforts. But there are just a few points of clarity that may help the reader who has not been as close to all this as you and I and a few others.

1. There would have been no need to establish THNOC if NSXCB Admin/Owner had been willing to convert the NSXCB to formal club to enable the PLI requirement to be met. This was always my preference at the time.
2. In 2020/21 the membership of THNOC was under 25 and the new committee at that time decided this was not sustainable in the long run. We had all experienced issues with the confusion the two organisations caused, and we considered this was one factor leading to low membership the other being the lack of an effective and efficient website as the face/brand for THNOC.
3. At 2020/21 THNOC had a £1320.00 liability to NSXCB for Platinum Membership fees collected since 2015. Due to not having the required information from NSXCB to make the payment this was not settled until November 2023 when I made the payment. This may have been a poor assumption, but it had led me to believe there was no funding pressure for NSXCB, and none were highlighted to me at that time until Kaz posted recently.
4. The changes made were in the best interest of THNOC and we did not consider that it left NSXCB in any worse position as they remained free to collect Platinum Membership fees as they had previously done and indeed continue to.

I hope this also addresses some points made by others. I recognise the number of posts appears to be tiresome for some members so it may be best if we pause more comments for now and allow me to have the call Kaz suggested after which we could issue a summary of the conclusion of those discussions and then pick up any other points that arise.

You will note I have also replied to Kaz this evening.

In answer to some of the suggestions and options offered by the THNOC Committee - I will add some context to the current situation.

NSXCB was the original organisation for UK owners of the Honda NSX (there was no confusion). In order to provide access to events that required PLi THNOC was formed. The THNOC (The Honda NSX Owners Club) was a group within the NSXCB Forum, as a part of the membership to THNOC it was a pre-requisite that there was Platinum membership of NSXCB. The implication of this was that a THNOC member paying £25 per year was contributing £10 of that to the forum. (Note the 2020/21 THNOC AGM proposed a continuation of the original fee process)

In 2020/21 the THNOC Committee took the decision that the full £25 membership fee would be used in order to setup a website and automated membership payment system. A decision made without consulation with the members (the THNOC constitution allows this). The result of this was that funding to NSXCB forum was removed.

The Forum NSXCB is an open platform for discussion and non PLi events, members are able to organise events and promote activities which are available to all, including events that need a code to register attendance.

THNOC is a closed organisation as required to ensure the conditions of Pli are maintained, and as such only members have access to those events that are promoted/approved by the committee.

The offer being put forward to support the Forum by THNOC while being on the surface a generous offer, it restricts the Forum and could if the THNOC decide be "de-funded" by the Committee at anytime as there is nothing in the current Constitution to prevent that.

If there is anything that I have misunderstood or misrepresented please feel free to comment.

[NSX 2000]

Blimey, this has to be the most commented and viewed thread in a long time!

I can't belive I've been a member for over 18 years! I don't want NSXCB to go for many of the same reasons that others have listed above! Because of NSXCB I'll be going to my second wedding later this year (as a guest), various birthday celebrations, dinners, and both non car and car events. I'm sure my first event was going to a rolling road day organised by Kevin! I even ended up buying his old Honda CR-V when he moved to Switzerland.

A few of us are going to Go Japan! on the 8th September and hopefully we will be able to discuss this topic in person, as sometimes people mis read or mis interpret what has been put in writting.

Just putting this link here https://xenforo.com/purchase/ as the sort of cost we might be looking at going forward.