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Thread: Drive Axle Removal and Overhaul

  1. #11
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    The OEM grease lasted for >20 years which is more than fine for me.
    Regarding replacement grease there a different types of grease for inner and outer joints, according to GKN

    I can only add that another engineer from GKN responded by saying that, "...molybdenum disulphide can clog the spaces between needle bearings and the spaces between the needle bearings and the inner surface of the outer races."

    GKN are very clear in their literature to state that cv joint grease - molybdenum type - is not to be used in tripod/plunge bearings, and, that tripod/plunge bearing grease not be used in cv joints.

    MD may be fine for a while lubricating the tripod bearing...it may work for a long time under certain conditions, as a few have pointed out. I have no experience here and only bring information from a respected company who developed their own lubricants to work with their own products, new and aftermarket.
    From: https://www.saabcentral.com/forums/a.../t-222379.html

    Just as a background why it seems to be reasonable going with the Honda recommended grease.
    1997 JDM AT VIN 1400005 - Stock

  2. Default

    How can you tell it lasted well for 20 years? I dont feel it lasted that long, thats maybe the reason inside the bearing are spots of wear as well as on the tripod. It has been discussed many times that the oem grease is not lasting 20 years and its a good idea to use a better one or you change it more often. But I guess its an endless discussion like with engine oil. KAZ Quote: As seen on many UK based NSX, the drive shaft grease was already broken down and turned into ‘melted coffee ice cream’ resulting in lack of lubrication under heavy load.

    I dismanteld for sure 20 drive shafts and all had a coffee brown cream.

    BTW: The same yellow grease is used on Honda ITR and many other Hondas too. So the NSX grease is not something special. There is only one part number for all 4 boot kits. So there is the same oem grease on all 4 CV joints. Just the amount is different to put in. Look the service manual. BTW: Newest part number for all 4 boots: 42017-SL0-020 and this includes the same grease bottle with yellow grease inside. IT replaced the older numbers 42017-SL0-000 and 42017-SL0-010. I dont know whats the difference is, maybe a change in the metall band, other material of the boots, etc?

    Every car manufacturer recommends their own oil, grease things. This must not mean its the best. .
    Last edited by austrian type-r; 15-08-2019 at 11:12 AM.
    Largest stocking of used NSX parts in Europe & many service parts in stock. parts inquiry: office@atr-racing.com / phone +43 676 5458032

  3. #13
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    My NSX was built in 1997 and the greases started to brake down recently (no melted coffee ice cream yet), so in my case it lasted for 20 years. Grease is oil trapped in metal soap (in our case, Lithium soap) who's property is breaking down over time, temperature as well as load so everybody's mileage (no pun intended) will vary, of course.

    The Honda grease is nothing NSX specific, and that's beyond my point. It's probably regular EP2 Lithium grease but the important thing is that it's without MOSē (molybdenum disulphide) mixed in. MOSē is a solid, dark grey substance (a powder) with a typical particle size of 6 um which (not necessarily) cancause problems in tripod needle bearings. That's why GKN is not recommending it and here is some more information to back that up:

    Technical papers exist which say it is a fact, not fallacy that MoS2 is not recommended for needle bearings.

    And I believe the evidence of my own eyes in that years ago I saw many more needle bearing failures which involved the use of MoS2, and that now that I do not use it in needle bearings, I haven't had a single failure. MoS2 will never see any of my u-joint spiders.

    My trucks require MoS2 in the propeller shaft splines, but specifically warn against it in the u-joint spiders, and I adhere to this.
    From: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...Number=1833288

    When looking at regular Honda FWD drive shafts these use (yellow) grease without MOSē at the tripod and (black) MOSē grease at the CV joints. This matches the technical advice from GKN as well as other sources and sounds sensible to me. Therefore I'll keep it that way. Everybody is free to use whatever they want, of course. It's their car after all

    PS: Regarding the part numbers, the metal bands surely changed, other items I don't know.
    1997 JDM AT VIN 1400005 - Stock

  4. #14
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    Exactly the point as Heineken stated.
    NSX uses roller type joint (tripod) on both the inner and outer joints, unlike the ordinary production cars with coupling style joint (forgot that long complicated name....).

    Honda specifies the yellow grease (U131-15, 08798-9003) to be used for all inner joints and for any roller type joints used on the outboard side.
    If you look at the parts label carefully, it even states as 'CV JOINT GREASE INBOARD'.

    Honda specifies the outboard grease in black colour (08798-9007) for other models and specifically states NOT to be used on the inboard.


    Addition to using the correct and suitable spec grease at each joints, one of the most important thing is adjusting the amount of air inside the boot.
    Roller type joint can get really hot and due to the geometry of suspension parts, the driveshaft is one of the weakest point on our NSX.
    If you can imagine how the joint moves with changes in geometry, you will understand how the boot changes its shape and the reason why it becomes the weak point.
    Among the people autocrossing their cars, it is common to use venting method at the boot.


    If you change the rideheight or use aggressive alignment, it will shorten the life of grease.
    On several NSX with extreme lower rideheight or wide tyre with massive negative camber at the rear, I found cracked roller and even the joint was damaged.
    If doing anything beyond the design spec, please check first before applying.


    -020 includes the hazard statements document required by the local regulation in some of the countries, just like the one included in the brake caliper repair kit.


    Kaz

  5. #15
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    If you have an EU model you should (well, could) reuse the metal clamps as there's no tools needed for them. The boot sets you can get form the US need the bloody tool.

  6. #16
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    These kits were from Adnan so I don't know whether it's the US or the any other version.
    Just checked my metal scrap bin and the old ones are still there. Out of your experience, do you think it would be reasonable to keep them?

    PS: Just noticed my subscription ran out, now it's renewed
    1997 JDM AT VIN 1400005 - Stock

  7. #17
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    I've reused the old ones. If your old ones don't need a tool I'd keep them.

  8. Default

    I always use aftermarket straps, those are self-secured like such from Berner: https://shop.berner.eu/de-de/p/13925...icle_id=139259

    very nice: you can use this for X-ray too. LOOOL
    Bei starken chemischen Einwirkungen und radioaktiven Strahlungen

    To my understanding the wear of the grease and the bearings must be much higher on FWD cars at the outer joints, cause it can move way more than a joint in a non turnable wheel?
    Last edited by austrian type-r; 16-08-2019 at 09:40 PM.
    Largest stocking of used NSX parts in Europe & many service parts in stock. parts inquiry: office@atr-racing.com / phone +43 676 5458032

  9. #19

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    Hi,

    i still didn't understood how to properly vent the boot... i will refresh mine, i already have boot kits from US.

    Thanks,
    Nuno

  10. #20
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    Don't know what EU or US boot bands are as they are all the same and made/sourced in Japan.

    Honda did use the ear-clip boot band later for the replacement drive shaft for our NSX but not sure this type was fitted to the NSX during the production years.
    I do know S2000 left the factory with the combination of ear clip style as well as the double loop one.





    This is the replacement driveshaft (upper one) I got in 2007 and you can see the ear clip band.




    If you order -020, regardless of where you sourced it from, it will be the double loop stainless band.
    In fact, Honda changed to this style not just for NSX but also for majority of its models because it can apply enough tension at the boot end even after many years.


    If you want, you can order just the OEM double loop band as well.








    Majority of NSX left the factory with the ancient classic design band like this.

    Don't bother re-using this style.

    It can't apply enough pressure once the boot took set where the band sat and heat cycled.
    Sooner or later, it will start leaking the grease and this was the reason why Honda moved to a different band design.

    If you followed the instruction on how to install the double loop style properly, should last for years even after the grease started breaking down.




    The continuous venting method is not required for street driving or occasional track day usage.


    It's more for the auto-x or figure of '8' practice session where you continuously force the drive shaft to generate high heat.

    Still, you can use the same method during the overhaul process.
    Just follow the workshop manual.





    I normally install the longer band first.

    When installing the shorter one, insert the hard plastic tube at the boot exit.
    You can use the tube that you can find on the spray nozzle, etc.
    Just needs something that won't squash under the band tension.

    Install the shorter double loop band as per instruction without removing the plastic tube.

    Setup the bench so that you can adjust the entire driveshaft as well as the outboard joint/boot assy to the specified length.
    Adjust both the inboard and outboard boots at about the halfway between the full compression and extension then just pull out the plastic tube from both boots.


    If auto-xing, just cut the plastic tube to much shorter length before inserting under the boot exit and leave it there.
    It can continuously vent the air to/from the outside.
    It will help in reducing the grease temperature to certain level during the excessive movement of the drive shaft during auto-xing.


    Kaz



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