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Thread: 2000+rpm hesitation... fuel pump?

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  1. #1
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    Hi, Jonathan.

    Looks like someone replaced your gauge plate.
    With JDM, where the triangle marker sits on your gauge, it should show the marker for the CAT high temperature warning.
    It's ' sort of ' equivalent to the rapid blinking CEL on full OBD2 car when too much unburnt fuel entered the CAT.

    Are you still using the JDM spec CAT?
    There is a silver stick like temperature probe on each CAT.
    The mating connectors are mounted next to the RR w/speed sensor behind the boot carpet at the forward right corner of the boot.

    Please note that if you have ACG charging system failure, both the battery marker and this CAT high temperature warning will be triggered at the same time.


    Please do not keep running the engine at the same load for long period when this warning is triggered.
    Otherwise, it will melt down the honeycomb structure inside the CAT body.

    If you saw it while driving, please slow down (like 50% of the speed you were carrying) until the warning light disappears.
    If it happened at idle rpm, please park the car where no flammable materials are under the car and stop the engine for more than 10min to cool down the CAT.


    As you suspected, you really need to measure the fuel pressure while the issue is present otherwise it could lead to wrong diagnosis.

    If the fuel pressure is fluctuating but not enough to trigger the CEL, then due to the delay in O2 feedback control loop and only two O2 sensors for 6 cyl engine that several cyl will be getting very rich mixture.


    Or, you may not have fuel pressure issue but instead, having intermittent multiple cyl IG issue due to ignitor failure, IG coil, etc resulting in misfire that is not consistent enough to trigger the CEL and allowing so much unburnt fuel entering the CAT.
    Even with the full OBD2 spec ECU with 3pin IG coil and misfire detection module (yours is pre-OBD2), I know from the fact that it couldnĀ’t detect intermittent misfire caused by the IG coil triggering rapid blinking CEL but no continuous CEL and thus, no error code despite the big misfire that anyone can feel.


    If O2 sensor is sending intermittent wrong voltage data, again, it could result in similar issue without triggering the CEL but normally, it's hard to make the CAT so hot without triggering the CEL if the issue was caused by the O2 sensor.


    Still, there is a chance of multiple issues of mixture and IG....


    Again, hope you can measure the fuel pressure while the issue is happening on the engine.


    Kaz

  2. #2
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    very interesting Kaz.... when i got my car, way back when, that particular legend section was missing on my car... whoever did the 'MPH' conversion managed to lose that particular transparency (along with the trip reset button, later found under the carpet!) and i made a replacement from the legends in the handbook i had... obviously the UK handbook wasn't correct for the JDM car!

    I am still running the JDM cats, and indeed have the 2 temp probes still there, all present and correct with the cables running into the boot area (next to the CD player location) and it would seem they are still functional! which, in this case, could be a huge clue in finding the cause of this particular issue!

    when the light came on, don't worry, i slowed down immediately, stopping where safe!!!

    i haven't noticed black smoke from the rear, and i haven't got sooty marks on the exhaust tips or the rear of the car, so i doubt it has been running rich, so i'm leaning toward an ignition issue (ok, the weather and thought of being under the car this time of year may be affecting my leanings! lol).....also the issue happened with fuel resistor in-line, and shorted out, both at the same sort of revs....

    looking on NSXprime ignitor issue threads, it seems to be highlighted when under load, and it seems i am more likely to reproduce the issue when the car is warm and i am going up an incline, loading the car more... both occasions on saturday were on a motorway incline.

    i shall try to fit the pressure gauge in a viewable position and see if i can reproduce the fault state and monitor the pressure.... i might also run some wires from the coil feeds to a line of LED to give a visual indication of the coils being driven... whether i'll actually be able to see any breakdown in the fast strobes i don't know, but it is a theory!

    having seen the prices of ignitors, i was toying with the idea of the bosch COP upgrade developed 'open source' by Operator on NSXprime ( http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showth...osch-cop-coils ), and now supplied by A.S. Motorsport.... basically using modern COP coils with the trigger circuitry built in to convert the ECU signal levels to drive the coils.... removing the ignitor and gaining 25 years in automotive development....

    I shall see what i can find.....
    Last edited by britlude; 08-01-2018 at 06:57 PM.
    aka Jonathan!!

    '92 charlotte green auto.... as a daily
    '37 Ford Y street rod......... something for the weekend!

    ...... if a photobucket pic is foggy, click it, and it'll take you to the clear version, yes, it's a clicking faff....

  3. #3
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    quick update..... 2 second hand ignitors on their way..... one from Germany, one from USA... if it is the ignitor it could leave me stranded, so a couple of, maybe ok, cheap spares as insurance to buy a bit of time! if it is the case, then i can buy a new one or upgrade accordingly


    (lings only want £520 for one!!!!)
    Last edited by britlude; 08-01-2018 at 06:15 PM.
    aka Jonathan!!

    '92 charlotte green auto.... as a daily
    '37 Ford Y street rod......... something for the weekend!

    ...... if a photobucket pic is foggy, click it, and it'll take you to the clear version, yes, it's a clicking faff....

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz-kzukNA1 View Post


    Noticed this symbol on mine the other day when I put my hazards on, I have the Early Type R dash bezel. I wondered what the symbol represented. My 'TCS Off' is blanked out too. I wonder if there are any other 'anomalies'?
    I'll do you a swap if you want Jon.

  5. #5
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    there seems to be some different tweaks then!... no good to me, I want TCS too lol... but thanks for the generous offer!
    aka Jonathan!!

    '92 charlotte green auto.... as a daily
    '37 Ford Y street rod......... something for the weekend!

    ...... if a photobucket pic is foggy, click it, and it'll take you to the clear version, yes, it's a clicking faff....

  6. #6
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    ... Ah yes, I suppose all three are joined so no good at all...

  7. #7
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    well my cunning plan for getting a new OEM honda bits supplier has gone pear shaped......

    a couple of part number searches on google/etc had popped up https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/ with some good pricing, so thought i'd give them a try.. ordered the top screen moulding and retainer and the gasket for the fuel pump..... as that was on my to-do list..... all ordered thru the website on 3rd Jan, 7-10 day delivery, blah blah, order confirmed!

    this morning i got the email....
    Dear jonathan,We are pleased to inform you that your recent order is on it's way.
    If there is no one available at the nominated delivery address to receive your parcel and it is too big to fit through the letterbox, a card will be posted through your door with instructions on what to do next.
    Please ensure you have read our FAQs if you have any queries.
    Kind regards,


    The Fowlers of Bristol Online Team
    followed later by
    Hello

    The following items are car parts and cannot be supplied by us as a result:

    Part no: 73151SL0023
    Description: Molding, Fr windshield upper
    Ordered on: 03/01/2018

    Part no: 73152SL0013
    Description: Fastener, Fr windshield upper
    Ordered on: 03/01/2018

    They have been cancelled from your order and the value refunded to your card.

    Kind Regards

    Order Amendments Team - spares@fowlers.co.uk
    hmmm... gits..... i presume the dispatch note is for the gasket, and they held the long thin boxes..... no mention of restrictions on honda part numbers, and again, gits! you just know they have 2 long boxes sitting there waiting to go back to the honda warehouse! oh well, another loss for HUK sales, they really don't do themselves any favours!!

    if you really want to depress yourself, they list the NSX fuel pump 17040-SL0-A30 complete at £191.68, plus postage!

    and their reply to my say-what???? email.....
    Hi Jonathan

    Apologies for the confusion.

    As we are a motorcycle dealer, we are not franchised to sell the vast majority of the Honda car parts range. Some of the parts appear on the system as part of the main Honda database, and we have asked for these to be removed so that they cannot be purchased.

    The system does not know you are ordering car parts - we only find out it is an issue when the order is sent to Honda and rejected on the basis that we are not permitted to supply those parts.

    The other part on the order has not been cancelled, suggesting it is not exclusively a car part, and this has been supplied to you.

    You will need to contact a supplier for Honda car parts to re-order the parts that have been cancelled. I suggest you do not attempt ordering any other car parts through our website to avoid any further disappointment.

    Kind Regards
    Sam

    i've asked how they can quote prices sooo much better than HUK car parts counters..... or if that's the reason they can't supply!!!! lol
    Last edited by britlude; 09-01-2018 at 05:40 PM.
    aka Jonathan!!

    '92 charlotte green auto.... as a daily
    '37 Ford Y street rod......... something for the weekend!

    ...... if a photobucket pic is foggy, click it, and it'll take you to the clear version, yes, it's a clicking faff....

  8. #8
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    3 threads in one here..... re. ignition upgrade with bosch COP units....


    6x NGK Ignition Coil - U5014 best price so far.... 6x £22.90 £137
    6x connectors for coils, lots of choice! £10-£20
    honda connector to make it plug and play circa£9 (for a M-F pair, not just the one i want!)

    plus some wires, sleeving and some heat shrink.... so well under £200 for the bits.... hmmmm
    Last edited by britlude; 09-01-2018 at 06:30 PM.
    aka Jonathan!!

    '92 charlotte green auto.... as a daily
    '37 Ford Y street rod......... something for the weekend!

    ...... if a photobucket pic is foggy, click it, and it'll take you to the clear version, yes, it's a clicking faff....

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by britlude View Post
    3 threads in one here..... re. ignition upgrade with bosch COP units....


    6x NGK Ignition Coil - U5014 best price so far.... 6x $22.90 £137
    6x connectors for coils, lots of choice! £10-£20
    honda connector to make it plug and play circa£9 (for a M-F pair, not just the one i want!)

    plus some wires, sleeving and some heat shrink.... so well under £200 for the bits.... hmmmm
    Will be looking forward to your "How to" thread.

  10. #10

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    Hi,

    Quote Originally Posted by britlude View Post
    3 threads in one here..... re. ignition upgrade with bosch COP units....


    6x NGK Ignition Coil - U5014 best price so far.... 6x £22.90 £137
    6x connectors for coils, lots of choice! £10-£20
    honda connector to make it plug and play circa£9 (for a M-F pair, not just the one i want!)

    plus some wires, sleeving and some heat shrink.... so well under £200 for the bits.... hmmmm
    don't quite follow what you are doing with this...
    using NGK coils on the NSX ?? are they compatible??
    (i'm not talking about connector, but functionality)

    Thanks,
    Nuno

    EDIT - ohhh... yeah... the image is blocked to direct link use

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