T506CSB up for auction, but...

[T99nsx]

whatever you like to imagine, however ignorant you are, whatever carp you chose to say, do, fail to understand..
There are some facts.

Fact - the car was damaged, by your crappy driving

Fact - the damage was assessed as category D.

Fact - category D is cosmetic or minor damage,

Fact - category D is considered minor enough to NOT require inspection before returning to the road.

Fact - the assessor who categorised the vehicle is a professional at assessing damage

Fact - the car has been repaired, and is in great condition and is open to any inspection.

Fact - the car was on display to THOUSANDS at the NEC car show this year.

Fact - You are the one who was driving like an idiot on public roads, and comparing yourself to Senna?


And how dare you question my integrity! You know nothing about me, I have openly disclosed that the car has had damage in my ad. I have nothing to hide, and am not ashamed of anything in my ad, my posts on this forum, nor my past.

Enough is enough - my further comments on the matter will be via legal channels now.



I would request that the moderators delete this entire thread, and will follow up this request with a formal demand, as it contains comments in clear violation of forum rules.

[NZNick]

Ignoring the comments, I am amazed that this was categorised as superficial/minor/cosmetic.

Making any potential buyer aware of this photo is part of what NSXCB is about, IMHO.

If there are more photos to accompany the picture above, that would aid clarification.

[AR]

I will leave the deletion or moderation in the very capable hands of the NSXCB team.

As for YOUR accusations , allegations and insults, they say a lot more about YOU than I could ever articulate!

[havoc]

Good lord, did I leave the gas on?!?

I think neither of you are entirely unbiased in this - the current owner (vendor) clearly has a vested interest in making the car as desirable as possible to potential buyers. Ary, you are the ex-owner with your own memories of the car and the damage/repairs to it, so your information is valuable to a potential buyer, but you're not a professional car-assessor. A picture DOES tell a thousand words though...

I do believe that Nick's comments above are spot-on too - the NSX community SHOULD be about looking-out for future owners and keeping some sort of record of the history of cars...it's what most classic-car communities do, to some degree.

So, whilst I DO agree that some of the bile and nonsense (from both sides) should be deleted, including some of the "Facts" spouted by T99, I don't believe the thread should be deleted...perhaps 'pruned a little'...

Fact - the damage was assessed as category D.

Fact - category D is cosmetic or minor damage,

Fact - category D is considered minor enough to NOT require inspection before returning to the road.

Fact - You are the one who was driving like an idiot on public roads, and comparing yourself to Senna?

I need also to pick up on this, as these are not facts, merely opinions touted as facts. I can categorically say that Cat-D IS NOT "cosmetic or minor damage" - legally, it's damage that is "uneconomic to repair", which from an insurance perspective typically means total costs (inc. assessor/other fees, loan-car costs and repairs) exceed their hurdle-rate (which is usually 50-70% of open market value, depending on car and underwriter). So if this car was worth e.g. £30k at the time of write-off, the repairs, loaner-cost and other fees would probably top £20k. It's up to a buyer to then work out how significant that repair would / wouldn't have been, and whether 'cosmetic' or not.
(In this instance I'll refrain from commenting - I can only see 1 photo, I don't have anywhere near all the facts)

The final comment above is clearly not a fact, unless I've missed Ary's confession - it's an ad-hominem attack. Which rather diminishes T99's positioning of himself as the victim here.

What WILL give a buyer a lot of confidence is a whole series of before/after photos and details of inspection and repair. If the vendor has this, then that's the sort of information that will put any argument over severity to bed VERY quickly. Just a suggestion...

Vendor - good luck with the sale, but please be open and honest - your eBay advert is rather light on detail and that can only lead to speculation, warranted or otherwise.
Ary - any buyer investigating on here will find your comments and if they wish to follow up I'm sure will contact you directly. It's probably wise if you refrain from further comments on this thread. If you have before/after pictures though, then you're welcome to post them up...they are clearly undisputable facts about the car and cannot be considered unfair/biased/lies.

(For reference, in case anyone thinks I've an axe to grind, I bought a repaired NSX - a previous owner binned it at the 'ring, requiring replacement rear bumber, n/s/r wing and tail-lights. Clearly not structural and you'd need to look very closely to spot anything now...and on a 100k car 'originality' is probably less important than on a 20k car)

[NSX 2000]

Good lord, did I leave the gas on?!?

If you didn't leave the gas on who did

Come on own up, my money is on Papalazarou

[nobby]

The information should definitely STAY. As Martin eluded it could do with some trimming BUT perspective, serious buyers will read through information posted and make their own judgement call on the actual CAR.

My main concern initially about this car was when the car was advertised on the Silverstone Auction there a few weeks ago the original information posted by the Silverstone auction was not truthful; It did NOT detail damage history in original listing ... we all saw that. I actually at one point was going to enquire about the car and ask about history and then all of a sudden SA had quickly edited the original advert to display rather IMPORTANT information that was missing and the sale price radically reduced. IMHO this was a major mistake and not sure what was happening either by vendor or SA to allow this to happen at all. But then again anyone buying such a car would hopefully know to run an HPI check. IMHO this sequence of events alone would increase my fears of potentially buying and owning this vehicle EVEN though the vendor has stressed that professional work and appropriate feedback has been sought. It should be highlighted very quickly to any potential buyer that the car has been damaged repaired.

This forum/thread will be able to facilitate serious enquiries about the car and provides communication channels to prior owner (in this case Ary) about the car and who knows the damage extensively. At the end of the day the buyer will make the final judgement call based on how they see the car now and what damage was done in the past.

[lotusolly]

If you didn't leave the gas on who did

Come on own up, my money is on Papalazarou

PMSL, I was thinking exactly the same as I read this thread!

I do agree with Martin here and that FACTUAL information regarding the car should remain on the site.

I have purchased and repaired a cat D car before (Not my NSX) and if the repair is carried out properly, there should be no issues with the car.
Its also worth considering that a £35k repair on a £60K car could likely be carried out by the insurance and be untraceable but the same repair required on a £40K car would result in it being written off. If the car is repaired to the same standard what's the difference? The big question is usually what corners have been cut to make this a viable repair for one party when it wasn't for another. Carrying out the work yourself to save on labour or the use of second hand parts (which can still be newer than the originals) is usually the method followed, but if done properly still doesn't make it a bad repair. Official thorough inspection is always the key.
I also know of a brand new Citroen ZX which was crushed between the decks of a ship whilst being delivered. The roof was pushed down to the bottom of the windscreen and the car was supposed to have been scrapped but a miss communication resulted in the car being repaired and it appeared at a Citroen dealer as their demonstrator! I definetly wouldn't have wanted to buy that car but I doubt any of its owners ever knew!

I may be getting mixed up with another car and apologies to T99 if I am but I thought the previous owner posted a very detailed rebuild thread on this car as it's repair was not originally carried out well and he rebuilt it with what appeared to be great attention to detail?

If this is the same car then the detailed rebuild thread along with an appropriate inspection would not have made me dismiss a car for being cat D if priced appropriately, however the initial listing with Silverstone not declaring it, an advert making light of the original damage and a rant trying to hide its history certainly would!

Olly

[Problem Child]

The information should definitely STAY. As Martin eluded it could do with some trimming BUT perspective, serious buyers will read through information posted and make their own judgement call on the actual CAR.

My main concern initially about this car was when the car was advertised on the Silverstone Auction there a few weeks ago the original information posted by the Silverstone auction was not truthful; It did NOT detail damage history in original listing ... we all saw that. I actually at one point was going to enquire about the car and ask about history and then all of a sudden SA had quickly edited the original advert to display rather IMPORTANT information that was missing and the sale price radically reduced. IMHO this was a major mistake and not sure what was happening either by vendor or SA to allow this to happen at all. But then again anyone buying such a car would hopefully know to run an HPI check. IMHO this sequence of events alone would increase my fears of potentially buying and owning this vehicle EVEN though the vendor has stressed that professional work and appropriate feedback has been sought. It should be highlighted very quickly to any potential buyer that the car has been damaged repaired.

This forum/thread will be able to facilitate serious enquiries about the car and provides communication channels to prior owner (in this case Ary) about the car and who knows the damage extensively. At the end of the day the buyer will make the final judgement call based on how they see the car now and what damage was done in the past.

I do not want to enter into this very entertaining slanging match (such things should take place privately behind closed doors) but it does demonstrate that we all have a responsibility to be careful and accurate about what we say about our own cars, and each others cars. I for one would be extremely miffed if another forum member passed opinion on my car and that their comment in turn adversely affected its value when sold. I equally think there is a responsibility (both morally and legally) on sellers to describe their property accurately.
Whilst I received great advice from forum members when I bought my car, and I am eternally grateful for this I do think we all need to stick to the facts rather than opinions, especially since the financial impact on the value of a car could be quite considerable.
This case is a good example of why recording a history of each of our cars would be useful. Writing a page on the forum that details repairs, damage, maintenance, MOTs, upgrades etc would be a great resource for potential buyers whereas slanging matches such as the one above have potential financial implications and do not do the reputation and credibility of the NSX community any good

[NSXGB]

http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.ph...oning-underway

http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.ph...to-sell-my-NSX

[Senninha]

The history of this car is well documented within this forum with recent posts bringing them all into one thread.

Damage classification is readily available for any potential purchaser, as is vehicle history for a small fee to the appropriate motoring department by any potential purchaser.

For further information about this vehicle or any others advertised for sale NSXCB always advises buyers to contact previous owners by IM.

Thread closed.