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Thread: NSX Health Check Service

  1. #61
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    Hi, Ary.
    Good to hear from you again.

    PM replied and hope it will help...


    Regards,
    Kaz

  2. #62
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    Hi, all.

    Through my 15 years of NSX ownership and being very close to it even before it was on the market in 1990, I managed to acquire enough data on NSX in many areas including the important maintenance work based on the climate and driving conditions in Japan.

    After moving to UK and driving many NSX and also carrying out the NSX Health Check Service for NSXCB members and other owners, I would like to share my personal view on some of the critical service items.

    I can’t cover everything here so I’ll just pick up some of them.

    I hope this will help not just the NSXCB members but also the people who is considering the similar service as mine.

    Please note that this is just my personal view and you may not agree with these or your environment/driving condition may differ so much that these may not be the case for your NSX.
    Please take this into your consideration and I have no intention to criticise anyone or any parties at all. I hope no one will misunderstand the purpose of this post ....


    1. Brake Calliper
    Until several years ago, in Japan, we had to carry out the calliper overhaul (OH) every 2 – 3 years by law.
    Since the rubber material has improved a lot, we are no longer forced to replace the boots, seals, cups and etc under the new law. However, it is still recommended by many reputable garages in Japan to have the calliper OH every 2 years in order to inspect the inside of the callipers and to prevent the rust from getting inside.

    It seems that for UK NSX, the calliper OH is not carried out on a regular basis. In fact, I noticed that this is not just the case for our NSX but also for many other cars on the road.

    I was lucky enough to drive many NSX based in UK and none of them were showing the same level of stopping power or the solid pedal feeling of the original spec.

    One of the reason for this seems to be that the owner believes or being told that the OH is not required if the car was not driven regularly or if it is at low mileage.

    Especially, among the owners with super low mileage NSX, the calliper has never been touched for nearly/over 10years.

    This is very worrying as the piston(s) inside the calliper just sits at the same position for many months/years if the brake pedal or side brake were left without any movements. Unless your NSX is kept inside the 24Hr air-conditioned garage, the moisture in the air will eventually get into the calliper causing the rust slowly. It will damage your piston, cause seizing and in the worst case scenario, it will cause brake fluid leakage or entire calliper to be replaced.

    Therefore, regardless of your annual mileage, it is essential to have your callipers serviced at regular interval. Needless to say, the brake fluid should be replaced every year for standard NSX regardless of the annual mileage and for those who take out their NSX on track, well, I don’t need to say anything as they are more experienced than me. For those who are interested, they are replacing after every track event or after a few events depending on the brake fluid used.


    2. Brake Master Cylinder
    For the same reason above, in the past, it was mandatory to OH the brake master cyl (MC) regularly in Japan.
    In UK and US, the workshop manual only tells to replace the entire brake MC as an assembly and there are no overhaul procedures.

    Eventually, we’ll struggle to source the parts in the long term future so personally, I think it is best to know how to refurbish the existing parts rather than just simply replacing them.

    Because of the price of the parts and the fact that it should be replaced as an assembly, it seems that many owners are running their NSX with aged brake MC or even with tiny leakage without being noticed.

    It is recommended to OH the brake MC at least every 3 years or at the time of calliper OH.
    While I was in Japan, it was very rare to see any sign of leakage or rust at the base of brake MC on NSX which was caused by the old leakge.

    In UK, most of the NSX that I saw during the Health Check Service or during certain events showed sign of old leakage.

    I would strongly recommend to have your brake callipers and MC overhauled on a regular basis regardless of your annual mileage.


    3. ABS
    Prior to the introduction of one box ABS module on our NSX, all models were equipped with four solenoids, accumulator/pump under the bonnet with control box inside the cabin. This old system requires regular service in order to prevent the solenoids from sticking.

    Unfortunately, if the solenoid was functioning properly as an electronics circuit, it won’t trigger the ABS/ALB yellow warning light on the dash even if it was sticking and not releasing any brake pressure when it should under wheel locking.

    Because of this, many owners with old type ABS module are driving with partially failed ABS without even noticing it. This is quite common for both UK and Japan based NSX.

    It is recommended to flush the system at least every 2 years and if you don’t drive your NSX regularly, then it is a good idea to activate the ABS a few times every time when you take out your NSX.

    This will help in preventing the solenoids from sticking.

    Please note that if you have old type ABS, the occasional squeaking noise from the front section is from the ABS pump and not from the solenoids. In order to activate the solenoids, you must trigger the ABS by locking the wheels under braking or lift the entire car and use special method.


    4. Coolant system
    In Japan, I have seen many NSX with burst coolant hose especially among the owners with aftermarket header/exhaust.
    One of the three hoses under the header tank and the very short/small one at the Eng Oil cooler just above the oil filter element are the common failure parts.

    As these hoses are quite difficult to see without removing other parts, quite often, the owner won’t be able to notice the first sign of the failure. The hose will expand partially like a bubble and then burst.

    The OEM hoses have fibre material woven inside the rubber hose for reinforcement. It is not easy to inspect the state of each hose from outside so it is recommended to replace all of them (23 – 25 of them) at a certain interval. Some of the owners managed to survive without replacing them for more than 10 years but as a preventative measure, it is recommend as max 8 years interval by many garages in Japan.

    In UK, it seems that most of the owners managed to keep the coolant hoses for more than 10 years. Seems like many owners are staying with OEM header/exhaust and the driving/environment condition is much better than Japan. Traffic jam in the hot humid summer will cause heat soak and lots of NSX in Japan are not kept in a nice roofed garage like the one in UK. Plain land is so expensive and precious in Japan due to lots of mountains. For me, the traffic jam on M25 in the morning rush hour is nothing compared to the one in Japan.

    If the colour of your coolant is not blue, then you are either running the old spec or non Honda one. The blue Honda one is called Type-2 and it has the maintenance interval of 10years. As a preventative measure, it is best to replace the coolant hoses before this….

    The header tank and the cap are regular maintenance items as well. If you can’t inspect the fluid level through the wall of header tank, your tank is getting old. Eventually, you’ll start to see small leakage around the fixing bolt at the left side or somewhere at the middle of the tank where the upper and lower tank parts are glued.

    You may see small crack at the small tube just below the cap where the overflow tube is connected.

    It is recommended to replace it regularly or replace it immediately at the first sign of the leakage.

    There are several aftermarket tanks available on the market and they will probably last longer than the OEM one. However, I still use OEM one because I know the internal structure and the story behind the design and test process on how long it took to came up with this internal design for the best air separation.

    I prefer replacing the water pump at the time of timing belt service regardless of the mileage and I’ll replace the thermostat every time when I replace the coolant or coolant hoses.


    5. Drive shaft
    Compared to other cars, it seems that our NSX requires more attention to the driveshaft maintenance. Once again, among the owners with aftermarket header/exhaust system, the right side driveshaft boot tends to break first.
    Even if there was no damage to the boot, the grease inside the boot can start to leak causing lots of mess and eventually, damaging the internal parts. You will also notice the clicking noise at the parking speed once your grease lost its original performance.
    The maintenance interval depends on driving conditions so there is no general distance/time based suggestions but I normally carry out the service whenever I started to hear the clicking noise. My NSX is everyday car and covered more than 120,000miles in 15 years. I don’t track my NSX and drive most of the time on A or B road and occasionally on the motorway. I don’t have aftermarket header/exhaust and based on these conditions, I normally OH the driveshaft around every 30,000 – 50,000miles.

  3. #63
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    6. Left Rear Hub/bearing
    On some of the NSX based in UK, it seems that this parts starts to cause tiny rattle after some mileage. In Japan, there were some owners replaced this part in the past but mainly they were tracking their NSX or had non-OEM wide wheels/tyres and different chassis setup. Among the standard NSX owners, it is very rare to replace this.

    Possibly it is because of the roundabout as I don’t remember having seen one in Japan….

    I had to replace mine a while ago and already found the same issue on other owners...


    7. Crank pulley
    Although this is not in the workshop manual, it is recommended by many reputable garages to replace this at the time of every timing belt service.

    I’m keeping one in stock as I’ll be doing my timing belt and possibly the clutch in the near future. I can’t comment on any aftermarket parts around this area as I don’t have any experience or data on the products and personally, for me, this is one of the ‘must’ item to use OEM part for my own protection.


    I would like to carry on writing more but I think these are enough for the moment.

    In order to support my view above, I will be posting some of the photos from my recent and ongoing services for the NSX owners. Once again, above is just my personal view and may not be the case for your NSX.

    Thank you for your time.


    Regards,
    Kaz

  4. #64

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    I would like to share my thoughts and feedback for points 1-3 above under important maintenance items.

    During my ownership my only critism of the NSX has been the brakes. During this time I have regularly changed the fluid, updated the discs, cooling ducts, hoses & pads. All of these have shown only marginal improvements and always felt a long way short of say my '04 S2k.

    So before investing in any other 'upgrade' parts for the brakes I had long thought it best to ensure that the basics were in the best possible condition. Bear in mind that my NSX has a full and detailed main dealer history and only 56k miles in 11 yrs, 17k of these with myself.

    So in the past couple of weeks and following the health check / roadtest of my NSX, I delivered my NSX to the care of Kaz for a full overhaul of the braking system.

    In due course you may see photo's and details from Kaz that were taken during my overhaul. To both his and my amazement was what he found during the work. We had both expected this to be a fairly straightforward peice of work given the generally clean and well maintained condition of my NSX.

    Last Friday I took the train on route to collect my NSX. Whilst comfortably on the Virgin train I was reading an old EVO and about my regular on road braking comparison, the 911 GT3 RS. I stopped reading and started thinking, even worrying about the work that had been done, the photo's I'd seen and would the time and skills invested by Kaz deliver good results.

    After a discussion with Kaz about the work I set about my journey home.

    At the request of Kaz, and as planned, I took the first part of my journey nice and steady to get used to the new 'feel' of the brakes. As I added the miles I realised I need not have worried whilst on the train. I can honestly say that in my 3 1/2 yrs of ownership I have never had such a good brake pedal and feedback from the brakes. This was so clearly a long overdue service requirement of my brakes.

    On route home I decided to go off the motorway and take in some more challenging B roads. With renewed confidence and with the pedal now allowing me to control the bite of the brakes I had a truly enjoyable drive across country. As the miles passed I found myself leaving my braking later yet with the full confidence they would perform as one would expect from a car such as the NSX.

    As I wrote above, I have a number of updates already. All of these were to help improve the brakes. I can honestly say that none of these changes made as much impact as the work recently completed.

    Only now do I have brakes worthy of the NSX. I had been considering other changes to improve the brakes but for now feel that these are no longer required. Based on my own experience, if you are considering how to improve the braking efficiency of your NSX, I would strongly recommend you complete a full overhaul to ensure you too have your NSX's braking system working to its most efficeint levels.

    I would end by stating that this brake overhaul is quite simply the most effective performance investment I have made and one I would encourage others to consider.

    Thank you Kaz and I, as others have, am very happy to recommend your service to all at NSXCB.

    Regards
    Paul
    Senninha

    'Too many manufacturers today are obsessed with lap times and power outputs at the expense of emotion and fun' Colin Goodwin

    S2 is signed by the NSX Project Leader Shigeru Uehara

  5. #65

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    This last post is making me feel very guilty, Kaz recommended a brake overhaul on my car but my budget is somewhat restricted at the moment.
    I have the new discs and pads on order, and I'm just hoping that when I take the calipers off I find the seals are in good order.
    Could be the age old problem with sliding calipers when the inside of the disc wears, it is usually due to sticking sliders
    (the piston pushes against the inside of the disc but fails to put effective pressure on the outside).

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by kzukNA1 View Post
    Hi, Ary.
    Good to hear from you again.

    PM replied and hope it will help...


    Regards,
    Kaz

    It has Kas, will try to get a few thoudand miles out of this one, then hope to book the car in with you.

    Cheers,

    Ary

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by kzukNA1 View Post

    1. Brake Calliper
    Until several years ago, in Japan, we had to carry out the calliper overhaul (OH) every 2 – 3 years by law.
    Since the rubber material has improved a lot, we are no longer forced to replace the boots, seals, cups and etc under the new law. However, it is still recommended by many reputable garages in Japan to have the calliper OH every 2 years in order to inspect the inside of the callipers and to prevent the rust from getting inside.

    It seems that for UK NSX, the calliper OH is not carried out on a regular basis. In fact, I noticed that this is not just the case for our NSX but also for many other cars on the road.

    I was lucky enough to drive many NSX based in UK and none of them were showing the same level of stopping power or the solid pedal feeling of the original spec.

    One of the reason for this seems to be that the owner believes or being told that the OH is not required if the car was not driven regularly or if it is at low mileage.

    Especially, among the owners with super low mileage NSX, the calliper has never been touched for nearly/over 10years.

    This is very worrying as the piston(s) inside the calliper just sits at the same position for many months/years if the brake pedal or side brake were left without any movements. Unless your NSX is kept inside the 24Hr air-conditioned garage, the moisture in the air will eventually get into the calliper causing the rust slowly. It will damage your piston, cause seizing and in the worst case scenario, it will cause brake fluid leakage or entire calliper to be replaced.

    Therefore, regardless of your annual mileage, it is essential to have your callipers serviced at regular interval. Needless to say, the brake fluid should be replaced every year for standard NSX regardless of the annual mileage and for those who take out their NSX on track, well, I don’t need to say anything as they are more experienced than me. For those who are interested, they are replacing after every track event or after a few events depending on the brake fluid used.
    Recently, I was working on one of the member’s NSX. Prior to this, the owner took my NSX Health check service and I drove this particular car. Straight away, I didn’t like the feeling of the brake.

    It is a low mileage, well looked after and being serviced regularly at the reputable garage so I thought it just needs good bleeding and going to be an easy job. Wrong….

    The Front calliper before the service. As you can see, it is very clean and even I was not expecting to see the problem inside…

    Most of the pistons showed rust under the lip of dust boot but one of them was particularly bad and didn’t move smoothly. It had rust even at the seal area and thus, enough damage was done and had to be replaced.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is quite common for NSX not driven regularly and if the calliper was not overhauled on a regular basis.
    There are lots of know-how that are not on the workshop manual to minimise these rust getting inside the calliper and these can only be done at the time of overhaul. Therefore, regular service on the calliper is a ‘must’ item.

    So, the Front calliper was inspected in detail and serviced using the overhaul kit with additional parts based on the past experience. The bleeder plug and cap were also replaced with the new ones.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #68
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    The Rear calliper requires extra work as it has hand brake mechanism inside and in the piston as well.
    Quite often, if the car was not used regularly or the hand brake cable was not removed for a while, the pin which secures the cable to the calliper will be severely rusted and thus, you’ll struggle to remove it.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    And then, one of the piston didn’t rotate smoothly even using the special tool….
    Finally, managed to disassemble the calliper and started the overhaul process.

    Using special tools to service the hand brake mechanism.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Hand brake lever and parts used for overhaul.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Now the piston rotates very smoothly and we have a happy calliper.

  9. #69
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    Kaz,
    Which are the special tools required to service the handbrake mechanism?

    Do the offending parts just require a clean and re-grease?

  10. #70
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    Hi, NSXGB.

    Although Honda states it as 'special tool', you can probably use deep socket to hold the adjuster down against the force of spring.

    I just use the Honda special tools because I got them at special price while I was in Japan. Also, I don't want to scratch the internal bore of calliper housing.

    You must obtain the long bent nose snap ring plier but you may already have something suitable if you work on your car. WIthout it, you'll spend long time to remove just one snap ring (5sec job) as straight type plier won't reach it or your plier will be hitting the folk of the calliper making it difficult to catch the snap ring. Time is precious for my service as I can only work on the NSX during the afternoon of my private time.

    Any rubber parts have to be replaced with the new ones if you have disassembled the calliper.

    There are two tiny rubber parts inside the handbrake adjuster so remember to replace them addition to the normal boots and seals.
    If you use any chemical for inspection/cleaning rather than the brake fluid, the rubber parts will expand so you must replace them even if you didn't disassemble the handbrake mechanism.

    This is why the workshop manual states to use only the brake fluid for the cleaning purpose.

    The pistons can be re-used depending on the position of the rust/damage. You will learn it from the experience but if you see any damage to the piston wall below the dust boot groove, it's best to replace it as you don't want to take any gamble.


    Regards,
    Kaz

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