Future ABS upgrades.....

[Silver Surfer]

So Kaz, ...how much for all the parts required in total as an estimated cost in £?

SS

[Silver Surfer]

Interesting thread on Prime....

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146646

Will need to keep an eye on this one.

SS

[Sudesh]

Been following that myself, I wouldnt be worried about the TCS as I dont have it anyway so I may have a look round for a good used one and try it myself, was actually looking a photos of other Honda modulators to see if any look close to the NSX one, would need better pics of the NSX modulator though.

[Sudesh]

Does anyone have good photos of the NSX NA2 ABS Modulator? Would like to see it from more angles and the socket where the plug goes into.

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

If you have access to the NSX latest spec ABS software code and programming tool, it may be possible to convert a certain ABS modulator from another model into NSX spec.






Latest spec NSX ABS modulator.


This is the one from Mercedes E class and although the location of the brake pipes is different, the hardware layout is similar to the one on our NSX.






Within the Honda family, probably the ABS modulator on ‘Odyssey’ is the most close ‘look-a-like’ design compared to the one on NSX.


The basic layout of ABS on S2000, Step Wagon and other models would be the same as well.


Latest ABS is based on Bosch design any way so most of the modern cars have pretty much similar package.


The one on NSX is manufactured by Nissin and the Orange/Black coneector is the one from AMP.


However, even if a certain ABS modulator looks 100% identical to the one on our NSX, there is no guarantee that it will work on NSX.


First, you never know whether the internal parts spec, fluid passage, circuit board design, etc are the same as the ones on NSX or not.


The biggest difference would be the software.


First, the chassis setup is not the same between all cars so the tuning will be different any way.


Although the wheel speed sensor spec is similar and thus the I/F circuit would be fine, the number of trigger teeth is not the same between all of the cars and of course, the number is different between the front and the rear.


The most important thing on a car like NSX is how you tune the ABS.


Very good example is the 100% identical (from outside) ABS modulator on standard NSX and the one on the 2002 Type-R.


Although they are 100% identical and you can fit 02 Type-R modulator on a standard one, the parts no. is different between the two.


This is because the software is different on Type-R spec.


Although the ABS hardware is compatible, the chassis setup (aerodynamics, weight distribution, disc/pad, damper/spring rate, brake booster valve, assist rate, etc) is different on Type-R.


Based on these difference, the software has been tuned specifically for Type-R ABS and thus, different parts no for Type-R modulator due to software difference.


Regarding the TCS.

The wheel speed signal arrives at the ABS modulator/controller as a raw data and then the signal level is converted (open collector) before passing onto the TCS controller.


This design is the same between the original and the latest ABS.


The original ABS controller is placed inside the cabin and on the latest one, everything including the controller is built into a single pacakage under the bonnet.


Therefore, when you upgrade the ABS, the upgrade loom will first get the wheel speed signals from the 20pin orange connctor inside the cabin.


Then, passes them onto the latest ABS modulator under the bonnet.


The four wheel speed signals are condtioned there and then back to the cabin.


Kind of a waste of wires and extra weight but no option unless you are happy to make your own loom.


Then, it will connects to the remaining 18pin orange connector to transfer the converted wheel speed signals to the TCS.



By the way, the latest NSX ABS is nothing special compared to other standard modern cars that you see running around you.


The original ABS on NSX was the first generation 4ch ABS design and thus it was very old technology.


With the latest ABS on NSX, we just managed to catch up with the rest of the world.



For the time being, I'll just keep ordering the ABS modulator from Japan. Still JPY80,400 and no changes from last year. On back order though....


Kaz

[Silver Surfer]

Interesting experiment from Primer Syndicate:
' While I did not want to say anything about this yet as I was still developing a plug and play kit for Prime members.........it seems the cat is out of the bag. A while back, I decided to install a newer Integra ABS pump into my NSX to stop my ancient ABS pump from squealing at startup. I have no lights on and everything works (ie. my pump kicks on at start up and also under extreme braking). My TCS works fine as well. The only issue I have is the brake bias. The back locks because the factory proportioning valve is built into the older NSX ABS monstrosity. So currently, I do not have one. Ravi ordered me the newer NSX proportioning valve and some lines and I will install those when they come in. I also installed and tested the RSX pump into Ravi's NSX, but that causes the TCS light to come on because the RSX does not have TCS output wires coming out of the ABS built-in brain like the older NSX ABS brain and the newer NSX pump. That being said, I got everything else to work for the RSX pump, but the 4 TCS signal wires were not hooked up thus throwing the TCS light on. The schematics I have on the older ABS system show the TCS signal wires to be different colors than the wheel speed sensors so I wasn't sure if the signal changes inside of the ABS brain or not so because this was NOT my car, I felt it was safer not to jump the sensor wires past the ABS brain to the TCS unit. After this delemma, Ravi decided to go to my style ABS system (Integra), but he could not get the pump to turn on. I was not there for this installation so the issue could be bad ABS pump or bad installation.
I really wish I could have had enough time to create the kit for Prime Members before the prices shot up and everyone panicked. Ohhhh welll. Once I get the proportioning valve installed, I will update everyone on my progress.

Jay __________________'

SS

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Seems like a great finding and hats off to those experimenting.


One advice from me is that something ‘operated’ without triggering the error code and something ‘tuned’ for a specific model is a completely different thing.


It will ‘operate’ as long as it can meet the hardware requirement (sensor, brake pipe connection, etc) and the software requirement (sensor signal condition, error conditions, etc).


It will also provide the brake pedal kick back if the system detected that the tyre went out of the range of targeted slip rate although the timing, length, strength, etc of the kick back depends on the hardware and software of the ABS setup.


What we don’t know is whether the tuning of the ABS control from other model is the same as the NSX one.


ABS control is not just simple as preventing the wheel lock up.


Good example is the software tuning difference between the 2002 Type-R and standard models.


They share the same spec on wheel speed sensor, number of trigger pulse teeth, brake calliper, brake master cylinder diameter, proportioning valve, etc and yet, there is a difference in ABS tuning between them.


Because of this, ABS modulator parts No. is different between Type-R and standard model.


Still, it is a great finding.


Therefore, if someone has access to the NSX ABS code and programming tool, we should be able to reprogram the board.


The control board is also looked to be secured by just several security TRX screws so should be able to be rescued if other part of ABS got damaged.



Kaz

[avcrx]

may i know how u wire the integra pump to nsx?
actually I did flushed the system, it works fine right afterward and last for a few days only. now whenever I tried to force start the pump to achieve the proper pressure, and let the car sit overnight, the tank will be full of brake fluid again, so it must be leaking somewhere?!

until recently I have access to a S2000 pump from a guy who crashed his car, and surprise me that it look exactly the same as the NSX's pump so I'm thinking of doing an upgrade from it, but the plug & pay harness is way too expensive for me at the moment and thinking of making one myself, so wondering if there is any info about the harness layout, also the original NSX wiring? as i can only find early old ABS info but nothing re the new NSX abs system wiring details...

Alan