NSX-R vs BMW M6

[markc]

PWR definitely in the NSX's favour. I think over 0.5 mile or 1 mile the M6 would have been away.

Looks of M6 still ****e compared to Honda. And 15 years or so newer!

Err nope... M6 has a significantly better PWR (Power to weight ratio) than the NSX-R. A short sprint like the 1/4 mile favours the lighter car but either that particular M6 was a duffer or the driver forgot to push the "M" button which releases an extra 100hp and gives you the full 500hp.

As has been said, performance once rolling is a better display of power and this video of an M6 out gunning a 997Turbo, 2-1 (at Bruntingthorpe), shows what the M6 is really capable of... http://www.drivers-republic.com/dr_t...64&area=videos

Cheers

Mark

[NoelWatson]

Err nope... M6 has a significantly better PWR (Power to weight ratio) than the NSX-R. A short sprint like the 1/4 mile favours the lighter car but either that particular M6 was a duffer or the driver forgot to push the "M" button which releases an extra 100hp and gives you the full 500hp.

As has been said, performance once rolling is a better display of power and this video of an M6 out gunning a 997Turbo, 2-1 (at Bruntingthorpe), shows what the M6 is really capable of... http://www.drivers-republic.com/dr_t...64&area=videos

Cheers

Mark

NSX-R vs 997 Carrera S

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fN35RGIkRg

[markc]

NSX-R vs 997 Carrera S

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fN35RGIkRg

Yes that looks about right. A perfect launch of the NSX might see it closer to the C4S over a 1/4 mile but you just have to look at the NSX-R vs 997 Turbo in the next round to see how much faster a Turbo is.

Cheers

Mark

[jaytip]

What was a BIG supprise for me was just how bad the NSXs' brakes where.
It may be the pinacle of Honda supercardom but the reality is the NSX just doesn't cut it anymore in performance stakes.I still love the NSX but seeing the Type-R getting beaten by the Carrerra S (never mind a GT3,GT3RS,and turbo)makes sad viewing.

[TheSebringOne]

The main problem is the lower BHP, even though its a lighter in weight than the Porkers, I would think it would be much closer around the track where the lower weight comes into its own. I think it will be quicker than the S around certain tracks, but not the GT3s or TT?

[markc]

What was a BIG supprise for me was just how bad the NSXs' brakes where.
It may be the pinacle of Honda supercardom but the reality is the NSX just doesn't cut it anymore in performance stakes.I still love the NSX but seeing the Type-R getting beaten by the Carrerra S (never mind a GT3,GT3RS,and turbo)makes sad viewing.

The brakes on that particular car could have been killed in earlier or repeated stops. The NSX brakes are usually praised for road work they just lack the sheer size and therefore heat (energy) dissipation potential for repeated hard use i.e. on track.

Time and technology moves on. The NSX, especially the NSX-R, is still a very fast car. Even when it first came out it was no faster than the competing Carrera (964) and Ferrari (348) in a straight line but the overall performance package was superior. The 1997/98 upgrade (3.2, 6spd) kept it on the pace of the 993 (non Turbo) and F355 but the 2002 upgrade wasn't enough to cope with the 996 and F360 let alone todays 997 and F430.

No need to be sad though, it doesn't make it a bad or slow car AND you don't have the embarrassment of having to own up to being a Porsche or Ferrari owner

Cheers

Mark

[Silver Surfer]

Despite it's age, it still gets the respect it deserves from owners of other sporting Marques who knows about cars.....that's good enough for me!

SS

[Senninha]

The main problem is the lower BHP, even though its a lighter in weight than the Porkers, I would think it would be much closer around the track where the lower weight comes into its own. I think it will be quicker than the S around certain tracks, but not the GT3s or TT?

James,

You should look out for the Pistonheads drive in our neck of the woods and go out for the day. You will very quickly change your thinking and realise that on Her Majesty's highway, circa 270bhp is NOT the main problem.

On real roads the only true weakness in the NSX is the brakes. And this will be highlighted against more modern machinery, particularly a GT3 with the ceramic option.

I've done a few of these and apart from meeting new people, I have learned so much about the NSX. I have also recieved many surprised comments from owners of newer, higher bhp cars that have been more than a little surprised by the performance the NSX delivers.

On track could be a very different story. Whereas over bumpy A or B roads I could stay with the GT3 RS (except for those awesome brakes!!!), we both agreed that out on a smooth race-track, he would be gone.

It really is a great day ... and I ended the last one thinking there's nothing else for the money I'd rather have.

Mark,

One point of interest re brakes. It was on fast twisty b roads where I have suffered from fade after 45mins to an hours swift progress. On track was ok.

I have subsequently changed to R discs + Mu's, braided hoses and enlarged deflectors with no issues.

Out on track I've not had any issues (its usually the tyres that go off first),

regards,

[markc]

On real roads the only true weakness in the NSX is the brakes. And this will be highlighted against more modern machinery, particularly a GT3 with the ceramic option.

I've done a few of these and apart from meeting new people, I have learned so much about the NSX. I have also recieved many surprised comments from owners of newer, higher bhp cars that have been more than a little surprised by the performance the NSX delivers.

On track could be a very different story. Whereas over bumpy A or B roads I could stay with the GT3 RS (except for those awesome brakes!!!), we both agreed that out on a smooth race-track, he would be gone.

It really is a great day ... and I ended the last one thinking there's nothing else for the money I'd rather have.

Mark,

One point of interest re brakes. It was on fast twisty b roads where I have suffered from fade after 45mins to an hours swift progress. On track was ok.

I have subsequently changed to R discs + Mu's, braided hoses and enlarged deflectors with no issues.

Out on track I've not had any issues (its usually the tyres that go off first),

regards,

Ceramic brakes come with their own problem in that they don't work that well until upto temperature. Combined with their enormous cost I'd still go with steel anchors unless my steed was a pure track car.

Remember that the GT3RS has super sticky rubber on as well which, through grip on the road, do more to shorten braking distances than the brakes themselves. They also put more energy (read heat) into the brakes cooking/killing them earlier if they're in any way marginal which the NSX's are.

Paul, I also have Project MU pads and bigger deflectors ie a similar setup to you. Have you also been out on track for 45mins at a time? I usually limit myself to 20min sessions but have done 40-45min ones on occassion. It's hard work on the driver let alone the poor old car

Oddly, and despite similar pre-preparation on each occassion, my brake performance has varied depending on the track. I always renew fluid prior to a track day or big trip and am on my second set of MU's.

Donnington International was generally fine with good brake performance. I was quite new to the car and probably not pushing too hard though.
Silverstone GP circuit gave me issues... severe brake judder. Ambient temperature was quite high that day. The brakes recovered after the event and were fine on the road.
Bedford Autodrome full GT circuit was also good. I could induce judder if I really went for it but just slightly backing off in the braking areas mostly resolved it.
On the Isle of Man I had some juddering again when really gunning it over the mountain.

Now tyres are another story. Road tyres, especially newish ones with deep tread, "go off" i.e. get too hot so the tread blocks move around horribly, but this can mask brake limitations. Fit trackday rubber and you get grippy consistant tyres which allow you to exploit the brakes more... so you end up killing them!

IMHO the brakes are marginal and just not up to hard track use. The only real answer bigger discs, and possibly calipers as well, all round while keeping close to the standard front rear bias. I'm saving up as I type

Cheers

Mark

[TheSebringOne]

If brakes is the main weak point of the NSX, then why are Type R disc more better than OEM? I understand that they are the same diameter front & rear on the 1997+ or 3.2. I understand that the other factors such as harder/more performance pad material has its benefits, braided lines ensuring fluid pressure & air deflectors for channelling more cool air to the brakes.