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Thread: Tyres

  1. #341
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    Different cars so possibly doesn't help, but I've got PS4 on my FD2 and AD08R on the NSX.

    The PS4, while not squidgy, don't have quite the same sidewall stiffness as the Yokos, but with a small-enough sidewall (40-profile on the FD2) they're perfectly good enough in that regard - certainly as precise as any mainstream tyre I've tried. They also don't need to 'warm up' like the Yokos do to give their best. And of course, they'll be a huge improvement in standing water...

    If I was taking my NSX on track semi-regularly, I'd go with the AD08Rs for the breadth of ability and extra outright grip they give. Otherwise if I'd got the choice (I'm on OE 16/17, so I don't), I wouldn't hesitate to go for PS4...running the AD's I'm always conscious of the weather when planning to go out in the NSX...light rain isn't a problem, a downpour could be...
    "No man with a good car needs to be justified"

    Blue '08 FD2 CTR - big, ITR-sized shoes to fill...
    Yellow '96 NSX 3.0 - oh was it worth the wait!
    Black '99 ITR - well, I had to have another one, the first was so much fun. Miss this one even more than #1...
    Blue '03 S2000 - SOLD, flawed but fun
    Blue '04 Focus TDCi Sport - SOLD, very good fun for a diesel!
    Black '00 ITR - SOLD, still missed
    Red '98 Civic VTi - SOLD, probably still bombproof

  2. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by havoc View Post
    Different cars so possibly doesn't help, but I've got PS4 on my FD2 and AD08R on the NSX.

    The PS4, while not squidgy, don't have quite the same sidewall stiffness as the Yokos, but with a small-enough sidewall (40-profile on the FD2) they're perfectly good enough in that regard - certainly as precise as any mainstream tyre I've tried. They also don't need to 'warm up' like the Yokos do to give their best. And of course, they'll be a huge improvement in standing water...

    If I was taking my NSX on track semi-regularly, I'd go with the AD08Rs for the breadth of ability and extra outright grip they give. Otherwise if I'd got the choice (I'm on OE 16/17, so I don't), I wouldn't hesitate to go for PS4...running the AD's I'm always conscious of the weather when planning to go out in the NSX...light rain isn't a problem, a downpour could be...
    I've actually driven very spirited at high speeds in torrential rain on both A & M roads with my AD08's over the years and found the grip they give to be very confidence inspiring. 9/10 for performance levels in my opinion.👍
    Pride.

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  3. #343
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    PS2 and PS4 are used on Porsche and gives fantastic grip.
    AD08 on NSX is the same.

    I think both are good tyres for Grip but may have different wear rate. They both maintain their grip even when worn unlike other tyres.

    SS
    Range Rover Evoque luxury family mover...my first diesel car!!
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    Black/black 95 NSX NA with mk1 Ary exhaust....Now sold
    Red/Black 91 NSX treasure.....FI No more NA
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    As the 17/18s would have quite a low aspect ratio, and I do not intend to track my car, it sounds like the PS4 will be a good choice for that set of wheels.

    I have the OEM 16/17s on the car right now, and will one day need to replace the tyres on those (currently Potenzas) . . . but that's a slightly different question!

    The Potenza/AD08R debate is reminiscent of the tyre choice for the Lotus Elise S2, which also has a front tyre size unique to that vehicle. The original OE tyre for the S2 was the Bridgestone RE040, with Lotus later moving over to the Yokohama AD07. These days people tend to run the unique size of AD07 on the front, with AD08Rs on the rear as they are available in the right size cheaper than the Lotus-specific AD07.

    The general wisdom in the Lotus community seemed to be that the AD07/08/08R performs far better in the wet than you would expect for a tyre of that type, where the RE040 performs worse in the wet than you'd expect. I was never sure if the aggressive look of the Yokos led people's expectations to the conclusion that it would have zero wet grip and that for it to have any wet grip at all was seen as exceptional!

    I'd be curious as to whether there's a consensus here as to which of the Potenzas or AD08R is better in adverse (read: British, rainy) conditions . . .

  5. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedCarsGoFaster View Post
    I'd be curious as to whether there's a consensus here as to which of the Potenzas or AD08R is better in adverse (read: British, rainy) conditions . . .
    Two things at play here:-
    1) Compound. The AD's have a compound that performs genuinely well on wet tarmac, which is where the 'Lotus wisdom' (sounds Buddhist! ) comes from. Not so sure about very-cold weather, but that's a different kettle of haddock.
    2) Tread pattern. The AD's have a very 'sparse' tread pattern, and as a result a much greater risk of aquaplaning (for equivalent tread depth) than a more 'normal-looking' tyre like an RE040.

    ...which is to say if there's standing water I'll be driving like your grandmother on AD's, but if it's just wet I'll probably be happier on them than on most Bridgestones (old S02's excepted - they were very good).
    "No man with a good car needs to be justified"

    Blue '08 FD2 CTR - big, ITR-sized shoes to fill...
    Yellow '96 NSX 3.0 - oh was it worth the wait!
    Black '99 ITR - well, I had to have another one, the first was so much fun. Miss this one even more than #1...
    Blue '03 S2000 - SOLD, flawed but fun
    Blue '04 Focus TDCi Sport - SOLD, very good fun for a diesel!
    Black '00 ITR - SOLD, still missed
    Red '98 Civic VTi - SOLD, probably still bombproof

  6. Default

    You could argue that to own a Lotus requires a somewhat Zen mindset . . . so yes, perhaps there's something in the Buddhist thing!

    The compound vs tread pattern tradeoff makes sense.
    Driving carefully in torrential rain is an acceptable compromise for AD08Rs through the temperate months, but it might get a bit tricky in full winter conditions.

    I can certainly report that AD07 LTS does not respond well to the cold. There was a period when I had to commute through winter in my Elise - after one too many occurrences of ABS activation/alarming roundabout understeer at what I considered mild commuting speeds I switched to winter tyres. They noticeably dulled feedback and response, but for the ability to actually turn in on a roundabout or perform an emergency stop that wasn't a panicked, chirruping slither they were worth their weight in gold. And on the day it actually snowed and I got to proceed happily in a lane of fresh snow past a line of BMWs spinning their wheels in slush . . . bliss!

    I rather suspect that for effective all-year use of the NSX I'd have to swap AD08Rs for Sottozeros or similar come November. The Potenzas have so far been tolerable in near-freezing conditions; PS4 or other less compromised tyres may also prove tolerable in such weather.

    . . . have I just convinced myself I need to buy *three* new sets of tyres?

  7. #347
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    I have compared 3 NSX within very short period but please note that I only drove PS4 for just about 50miles, never in wet and not my NSX so never pushed hard enough.
    Chassis setup including alignment difference plays big part but because it's not my NSX, not possible to achieve the same setup or push hard.
    Please take these into consideration when reading the following feedback.

    Car #1: facelifted, Coupe, OEM 17/17 wheel, PS4
    Car #2: facelifted, Coupe, OEM 17/17 wheel, AD08
    Car #3: popup, Coupe, OEM 16/17 wheel, AD08R, mine.

    My NSX is with OEM Type-S suspension with different F/R rake compared to standard coupe.
    Tyre pressure set at around 33psi cold at all four corners or F/R = 32/36 psi depending on the conditions.
    Something that I felt may not be the case for you and vice versa.
    I drive my NSX almost every day throughout the year so hot/cold/dry/wet conditions.
    Covered about 160K miles in different driving conditions (UK/Japan).
    Used to carry out test driving or on track a lot (multiple NSX + different make/models).
    I know how the tyres are being tested at the manufacture.
    I have respect to tyre engineers.

    As it was my first time driving PS4, I compared it with my NSX (but on different OEM wheel setup, PS4 on 17/17 whereas my AD08R on 16/17) back to back on the same day through the same route.
    Jumping into the other car straight after the other so good comparison apart from different tyre size.
    The Car #2 was driven a few days after the #1 was returned to the owner so not driving on the same day back to back but my feeling was still fresh.

    First, you will need to play a lot with the tyre pressure with PS4, more so than the AD08R.
    AD08R seemed to have wider window than the PS4 when it comes to the sensitivity against the tyre pressure change.
    I think partially this was down to the fact that the PS4 was still fairly fresh after being mounted on the wheel.
    Even with the same tyre size and pressure between Car #1 and #2, just pushing the sidewall with your finger tells you something.
    PS4 is really soft though I didn't measure the actual tyre size so please use above info as a reference only.
    Same tyre size doesn't mean the same actual size among different tyre manufactures.

    I didn't measure the tyre weight so no idea on the difference between PS4 and AD08R.

    As it was very hot dry summer day, I started with 33psi (2.3kg/cm2) cold at all four corners.
    Very comfortable (ride quality, noise) on the straight and seemed to minimise the vibration from the rough road surface.
    However, when doing U-turn using the very small roundabout, as soon as you load the corner, you can feel as if the tyre is squashing/recovering at different rate throughout the roundabout due to changes in load and road surface.
    Please note that this is very small roundabout so the speed is at very low range yet you would feel the changes in the rate.

    If you on purposely change the TH pedal angle in the middle of the roundabout to alter the load and speed, it was uncomfortable as I couldn't tell what's happening at the rear....
    Not easy to tell in words.... It's not sliding because it's at such low speed.... More like you have wobbling hub bearing.
    You won’t get this feeling with AD08R.

    So, changed the tyre pressure to F/R = 32/36 (2.2 / 2.5kg/cm2) and for me, it felt better but still not to my taste.
    I wish I could test the tyre pressure further one day…..

    During the cruising mode of 60 - 70mph for like 30min and in between, went through the large roundabout, long upslope acceleration engaging VTEC at the junction, going in and out of mid size roundabout, etc, felt very comfortable, responsive and ease.

    So, in summary, I mentioned this to another owner who was looking for the replacement tyre set and to me, PS4 felt like very good candidate for owners doing mainly street driving with long journey and put comfort above the max dry/wet performance.
    I think majority of the owners are in this category.
    AD08R feels more shifted towards the performance with the trade-off of comfort and the cost.

    If I can find the PS4 for my front, I would love to try it next time on my NSX as from time to time, Michelin is offering very good deal on their tyre range and at one point, much cheaper than the AD08R.
    Also, probably much easier to source PS4 than AD08R as quite often, you have to act many months in advance if you want AD08R at the specific timing.

    I think I'm on the 3rd or 4th set of AD08/AD08R at the moment.
    One thing I like it is the wider window for the mistake being made by the driver.
    Also, it seems to handle very well (wide window) even when the tyre pressure changes dramatically due to weather condition.
    It seems to generate the G lat/yaw by its structure and not mainly through the compound and while no-where-near to the feeling/response of the OEM tyre (you can still get them in Japan), one of the best compromise.

    For the wet and cold environment, well, it's upto the driver.
    On the motorway for long distance under heavy rain in cold winter, no scary moment with AD08 or AD08R even at 1/2 wear.
    I think I was bit more nervous with some of the BS tyres under the same condition but it was long time ago.
    When I used to use BS tyres, they tend to change its wet characteristic once it past about 1/3 wear point.

    I'm interested in BS RE-71R as I used to love the original RE-71 ages ago.
    Don’t think it's available in UK yet….
    Some of my friends in Japan are using it and while expensive, loving it.
    Worn out fairly fast on track but the lap time didn't change dramatically even after many outings…..


    Kaz
    Last edited by Kaz-kzukNA1; 08-10-2018 at 04:50 PM. Reason: font issue

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    Thanks Kaz - very interesting read!


    So in summary, in tyres as with most things, everything's a tradeoff and nothing comes for free. Will have to consider whether I'll realistically place comfort or performance higher on my list of priorities . . .


    It sounds as though soft sidewalls are a feature of modern performance tyres - perhaps chasing a little ride comfort when suspension is stiff and sidewall height is so minimal on the current generation of performance cars?

  9. #349

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedCarsGoFaster View Post
    Thanks Kaz - very interesting read!


    So in summary, in tyres as with most things, everything's a tradeoff and nothing comes for free. Will have to consider whether I'll realistically place comfort or performance higher on my list of priorities . . .


    It sounds as though soft sidewalls are a feature of modern performance tyres - perhaps chasing a little ride comfort when suspension is stiff and sidewall height is so minimal on the current generation of performance cars?
    I'd agree with Kaz's comments, but one thing to point out is that the PS4 is the "entry level" performance tyre - I'd expect a different outcome if using Cup2s.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMv64liOqIE

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