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Thread: Fails to start first time

  1. #11

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    Hi Kaz

    I've done the following today.

    Inserted diagnostic loop


    Car still in my garage, not been started since I previously since put away. See video here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ii1gm0f6hx...%2012.mov?dl=0

    Next I removed diagnostic loop and started car (without the issue as if had the ignition on and off a few times for the diagnostic video), drove it for 30 mins



    Stopped. Inserted loop and did this video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zchwvyk0ex...%2003.mov?dl=0


    Then I removed the diagnostic loop


    Tried to start car (from warm having been stopped about 5 mins), it failed with same issue. See video here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ar93k7gw4p...%2048.mov?dl=0


    Inserted the diagnostics loop. See final video here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/68viuzeyqw...%2034.mov?dl=0

    Looking at the diagnostic pdf I think this is showing just the one error code of 4, is that correct ?

    Thanks

    Phil


    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz-kzukNA1 View Post
    Yes.
    Can be used for both OBD1 and OBD2 spec.
    Yours is OBD1 and DBW spec.
    If not sure about the actual code, please take a video from IGSW in P0 Off position and try to include all readings including the volt gauge.

    Even without triggering the warning light, it's worth reading the error code at least once a year.

    Some of the error codes require two consecutive drive cycles or two detection within the same drive cycle before triggering the warning light.
    Therefore, even without any warning lights, still, you may have error code stored on certain controllers.


    Kaz

  2. #12
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    That's CEL #40, DBW motor circuit or TH butterfly target/actual positon deviation.
    It's not conclusive whether this error was stored in the past or indeed happening at the moment.
    If the latter case, very likely to be related to the cause of the engine stall.

    Voltage reading seemed to be consistent even during cranking so at this stage, I'll leave power supply related cause out of the scope.


    Still, from your latest video, whenever the CEL came back On after the light bulb check mode, the engine stalled so there must be a relationship.


    Now that you read the code, the next step is to reset the ECU but please don't do it if you are close to the MOT (6 months extension only applies if renewal date before 01/Aug) or away from your home as there is a chance the ECU may not be able to re-learn all of the co-efficient figures if there is a problem (including loose connector, etc) with the DBW.


    Please note that the followings are not the standard reset procedure and only applies to your specific situation.


    1. In preparation for the reset process, locate the 7.5A CLOCK fuse inside the pentagonal/octagonal black box under the bonnet/hood.

    2. Fully warm up the engine.
    Just go out for a short driving or combine the process on your return from outing.

    3. Before stopping the engine, switch off the A/C, audio head unit, head light, etc.
    Basically, create no load condition in preparation for the next fireup.

    4. Stop the engine.

    5. Remove CLOCK fuse for 10sec and then place it back.
    This will erase all of the error codes from any controllers on the car except for the latest one body ABS brain.

    6. Turn IGSW into P2 ON and wait for at least 2sec while keeping eye on the CEL.
    Do not start the engine and keep no load condition.
    Do not touch the TH pedal.

    7. If the CEL came back On after 2sec of light bulb check mode, put IGSW back into P0 Off and then back into P2 On. Otherwise, go to step #8.
    Repeat this a few times if the CEL doesn't switch itself Off after every bulb check mode.
    This is just to simulate some of your video as the engine always stalled if cranked with the CEL On but then if power cycled, the CEL switched itself Off after the bulb check mode and the following engine fireup was fine.

    8. Now start the engine without touching the TH pedal and keep no load condition.
    On first attempt, if the engine stalled like before because the CEL stayed On in step #7, go back to P0 and re-start the engine again.

    9. Keep running the engine under no load condition and without touching the TH peal for 10 - 15min.
    Don't worry about the electrical load increase because of the radiator fan.

    10. Stop the engine, wait for a few sec, put IGSW into P2 On and wait for at least 2sec.

    11. If CEL came back On after 2sec, repeat #7 and #8 but no need keep running the engine for 10 - 15min. Just short fireup like 10sec is enough.
    If CEL stayed Off after 2sec, just start the engine for about 10sec.
    Unlike in step #8, the engine rpm should drop to 800rpm almost immediately after the fireup.

    12. Stop the engine.

    13. Read error code.
    If new code or CEL #40 stored, you will need further diagnosis but most likely, loose connector, etc.

    14. If no code stored, go out for several outings and remember to read the error code at some point even if you didn't trigger the CEL.
    From now on, try waiting for at least 2sec after every IGSW P2 and keep eye on CEL.
    On first occurrence of CEL coming back On after 2sec, ideally, do not start the engine and read the error code immediately.


    Kaz

  3. #13

    Default

    Kaz, you're great. My MOT is booked for the 14th July so I'll pause this now until after that. I'll then do the process as you advise.

    Many thanks.

    Phil

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz-kzukNA1 View Post
    That's CEL #40, DBW motor circuit or TH butterfly target/actual positon deviation.
    It's not conclusive whether this error was stored in the past or indeed happening at the moment.
    If the latter case, very likely to be related to the cause of the engine stall.

    Voltage reading seemed to be consistent even during cranking so at this stage, I'll leave power supply related cause out of the scope.


    Still, from your latest video, whenever the CEL came back On after the light bulb check mode, the engine stalled so there must be a relationship.


    Now that you read the code, the next step is to reset the ECU but please don't do it if you are close to the MOT (6 months extension only applies if renewal date before 01/Aug) or away from your home as there is a chance the ECU may not be able to re-learn all of the co-efficient figures if there is a problem (including loose connector, etc) with the DBW.


    Please note that the followings are not the standard reset procedure and only applies to your specific situation.


    1. In preparation for the reset process, locate the 7.5A CLOCK fuse inside the pentagonal/octagonal black box under the bonnet/hood.

    2. Fully warm up the engine.
    Just go out for a short driving or combine the process on your return from outing.

    3. Before stopping the engine, switch off the A/C, audio head unit, head light, etc.
    Basically, create no load condition in preparation for the next fireup.

    4. Stop the engine.

    5. Remove CLOCK fuse for 10sec and then place it back.
    This will erase all of the error codes from any controllers on the car except for the latest one body ABS brain.

    6. Turn IGSW into P2 ON and wait for at least 2sec while keeping eye on the CEL.
    Do not start the engine and keep no load condition.
    Do not touch the TH pedal.

    7. If the CEL came back On after 2sec of light bulb check mode, put IGSW back into P0 Off and then back into P2 On. Otherwise, go to step #8.
    Repeat this a few times if the CEL doesn't switch itself Off after every bulb check mode.
    This is just to simulate some of your video as the engine always stalled if cranked with the CEL On but then if power cycled, the CEL switched itself Off after the bulb check mode and the following engine fireup was fine.

    8. Now start the engine without touching the TH pedal and keep no load condition.
    On first attempt, if the engine stalled like before because the CEL stayed On in step #7, go back to P0 and re-start the engine again.

    9. Keep running the engine under no load condition and without touching the TH peal for 10 - 15min.
    Don't worry about the electrical load increase because of the radiator fan.

    10. Stop the engine, wait for a few sec, put IGSW into P2 On and wait for at least 2sec.

    11. If CEL came back On after 2sec, repeat #7 and #8 but no need keep running the engine for 10 - 15min. Just short fireup like 10sec is enough.
    If CEL stayed Off after 2sec, just start the engine for about 10sec.
    Unlike in step #8, the engine rpm should drop to 800rpm almost immediately after the fireup.

    12. Stop the engine.

    13. Read error code.
    If new code or CEL #40 stored, you will need further diagnosis but most likely, loose connector, etc.

    14. If no code stored, go out for several outings and remember to read the error code at some point even if you didn't trigger the CEL.
    From now on, try waiting for at least 2sec after every IGSW P2 and keep eye on CEL.
    On first occurrence of CEL coming back On after 2sec, ideally, do not start the engine and read the error code immediately.


    Kaz

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Bucks, UK
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    Nothing wrong taking the MOT now and as I don't know your circumstances that it may not apply to your case but you could be eligible for the automatic 6 months extension;

    Coronavirus: MOTs due from 30 March 2020
    Your car, van or motorcycle’s MOT expiry date will be extended by 6 months if it’s due between 30 March 2020 and 31 July 2020.

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavi...-30-march-2020

    Please note the latter part of the above link especially the following sections;
    If you take your vehicle for its MOT and it fails;
    and
    If your vehicle tax and MOT run out in July


    Kaz

  5. #15

    Default

    Hi Kaz

    Had the MOT today so then went though the procedure as you advised. I'm now wondering if this issue is just the engine immobiliser part of the original alarm. I never use the alarm but it does immobilise and I have to press a button after I've turned to P2 on the alarm fob which then de-activates the immobiliser. I'm still not 100% convinced this is the cause all the time as I'm sure on one of my P0-P2 cycles I had the immobiliser off and the CEL light came back on.

    I've read the code and it was 40 again.

    So, I'm still waiting for my master relay to arrive which I'll swap anyway.

    I will see how it goes over a month. Thanks again for your help and advice.
    Last edited by philboo; 14-07-2020 at 06:54 PM.

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