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Thread: Fails to start first time

  1. #1

    Default Fails to start first time

    Hi

    I hope someone can give some advice. My NSX hasnÂ’t been used much for a couple or years due to personal circumstances. IÂ’d noticed that it was failing to start first time at least two years ago but thought itÂ’s just the battery getting knackered and lack of use. Over the last couple of weeks IÂ’ve actually manage to go out for few runs and have found I still have the issue either cold or hot.

    I run the car on shell v power so donÂ’t think itÂ’s the fuel.

    It had new plugs about 3 years ago and has hardly been used since.

    IÂ’ve videoed it starting up from cold (several days since starting) which you can see here. https://www.dropbox.com/s/d377n05dgo...%2029.mov?dl=0

    It has been serviced by Ben at vtec direct for several years with no issues.

    IÂ’d read comments about the master relay but didnÂ’t think this sounded the same. Even so IÂ’ve had that out and re-flowed all the solder joints to be sure. This made no difference.

    Can anyone suggest further things I need to check.

    Thanks

    Phil

  2. #2

    Default

    It looks like the fuel is not getting through once the car starts with the starter motor.... Try another master relay.

    SS
    Lexus LC500h.......New Daily run around with some saving the Planet thoughts
    Black/black 95 NSX NA with mk1 Ary exhaust....Now sold
    Red/Black 91 NSX treasure.....FI No more NA
    Silver/Pearl White/Black 1993 NSX 3.0 5 MT NSX ZAZ R-GT Twin Scroll Turbo

  3. #3
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    Default

    How old is the fuel in the tank?
    Have you tried to download any fault codes.
    Something odd seems to happen with the ECL when you first try to crank the car - briefly goes out when fuel pump primes, then comes back on, you then crank unsuccessfully. The light stays out like normal the second time when car starts successfully.
    I'd guess fuel related.

  4. #4

    Default

    I’ve ordered one with an ETA of a couple of months. Hopefully that’s all it is then.

    Thanks

    Phil



    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Surfer View Post
    It looks like the fuel is not getting through once the car starts with the starter motor.... Try another master relay.

    SS

  5. #5

    Default

    It had fresh V power in April or May but it’s been like this for a while but due to lack of time hadn’t really looked into it. I thought fuel too but wasn’t convinced it was the relay as it’s o predictable to start without issue the 2nd time.

    Also, if I switch on the ignition so it primes a few times and then try to start it is happy. I’ve not looked into any diagnostics yet, thought I’d seek advice first.

    cheers.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Switzerland
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    1,006

    Default

    Fuel delivery.
    Not sure by your description if you tried the following: turn the key several times to IGN and at the 5th time to start. Does it start then? By doing so you build up pressure in the fuel system. If it starts and keeps running you have a fuel restriction: fuel filter or fuel pump or its resistor. The 1st one is easier to replace.
    I'm pretty sure it's related not to any electronic problem. If so I'd start with the ignition switch behind the knee bolster. The main relay (or fuel pump relay) shows its weekness while trying to start a hot engine but you've already mentioned that you've resoldered it. But the relay itself could be the problem, so it's not a bad idea to have ordered a second one.
    To watch the fuel pressure you could mount a gauge.

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Default

    What is the spec of your NSX?
    From the gauge design, looked to be DBW so must be 95+ MT.

    Year model, country spec, any modifications, aftermarket security devices, etc?
    Anything done around the ECU connectors, behind the seat, ICE devices, etc?
    Anything done inside the Eng bay when this started happening? For example, DBW motor connector, sensor connectors, etc?

    Please read the error code first.
    http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?9229-How-to-read-the-error-code

    If you set the clock, does it keep the correct time?


    In your video, after in P2 ON, the CEL stayed On for about 2sec for the bulb check mode (normal) but it immediately came back On again (00:05 - 00:06) and stayed On for at least another 2+sec (not normal).

    Possibly triggered the CEL before starting the engine due to open/short circuit on sensor/device/etc or loss of Vcc or Vref.

    It actually stayed On for about 3sec but then you cranked the engine so it could have stayed On forever (not normal).

    The engine stalled fairly fast so not conclusive but your TCS light also stayed On after the engine started.
    Normally, it will switch itself Off as soon as the engine starts.
    However, because it stalled so fast that it may not be able to complete the cycle and could be nothing wrong and not related.


    Just before the 2nd attempt when you turned the IGSW into P2 ON, the CEL DID switch itself Off after the 2sec bulb check mode and stayed Off (00:16 - 00:19, this is how it should be).
    Then, the engine started successfully and the TCS light switched Off.


    From what you wrote, there are several question marks on the IGSW and you could have multiple issues resulting in just one phenomenon so another question mark (but lower priority than the IGSW) on the Fuel Pump Relay, Fuel pump, fuel pump resistor but I'll wait for your answer to the spec of your NSX and the report on the error code first.


    Kaz
    Last edited by Kaz-kzukNA1; 03-07-2020 at 11:39 AM. Reason: extra info

  8. #8

    Default

    Thank you Kaz. I’ll look into answering all of these when I get chance.

    The quick ones.

    it’s a UK 3.0 96 NSX T so I assume DBW.

    No electrical changes or work apart from you repairing my climate control a few years ago.

    It’s all standard. It had an original alarm which I don’t use but also doesn’t seem to cause issues.

    Just standard services, nothing electrical related.

    Thanks for taking the trouble to reply.

    Phil




    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz-kzukNA1 View Post
    What is the spec of your NSX?
    From the gauge design, looked to be DBW so must be 95+ MT.

    Year model, country spec, any modifications, aftermarket security devices, etc?
    Anything done around the ECU connectors, behind the seat, ICE devices, etc?
    Anything done inside the Eng bay when this started happening? For example, DBW motor connector, sensor connectors, etc?

    Please read the error code first.
    http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?9229-How-to-read-the-error-code

    If you set the clock, does it keep the correct time?


    In your video, after in P2 ON, the CEL stayed On for about 2sec for the bulb check mode (normal) but it immediately came back On again (00:05 - 00:06) and stayed On for at least another 2+sec (not normal).

    Possibly triggered the CEL before starting the engine due to open/short circuit on sensor/device/etc or loss of Vcc or Vref.

    It actually stayed On for about 3sec but then you cranked the engine so it could have stayed On forever (not normal).

    The engine stalled fairly fast so not conclusive but your TCS light also stayed On after the engine started.
    Normally, it will switch itself Off as soon as the engine starts.
    However, because it stalled so fast that it may not be able to complete the cycle and could be nothing wrong and not related.


    Just before the 2nd attempt when you turned the IGSW into P2 ON, the CEL DID switch itself Off after the 2sec bulb check mode and stayed Off (00:16 - 00:19, this is how it should be).
    Then, the engine started successfully and the TCS light switched Off.


    From what you wrote, there are several question marks on the IGSW and you could have multiple issues resulting in just one phenomenon so another question mark (but lower priority than the IGSW) on the Fuel Pump Relay, Fuel pump, fuel pump resistor but I'll wait for your answer to the spec of your NSX and the report on the error code first.


    Kaz

  9. #9

    Default

    Hi

    i assume this is the correct information for engine diagnostics http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.ph...the-error-code


    Quote Originally Posted by philboo View Post
    Thank you Kaz. I’ll look into answering all of these when I get chance.

    The quick ones.

    it’s a UK 3.0 96 NSX T so I assume DBW.

    No electrical changes or work apart from you repairing my climate control a few years ago.

    It’s all standard. It had an original alarm which I don’t use but also doesn’t seem to cause issues.

    Just standard services, nothing electrical related.

    Thanks for taking the trouble to reply.

    Phil

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Default

    Yes.
    Can be used for both OBD1 and OBD2 spec.
    Yours is OBD1 and DBW spec.
    If not sure about the actual code, please take a video from IGSW in P0 Off position and try to include all readings including the volt gauge.

    Even without triggering the warning light, it's worth reading the error code at least once a year.

    Some of the error codes require two consecutive drive cycles or two detection within the same drive cycle before triggering the warning light.
    Therefore, even without any warning lights, still, you may have error code stored on certain controllers.


    Kaz

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