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Thread: collecting parts for winter project.....

  1. #11
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    Some extra information for those interested.

    If you are happy to spend about US$50, I recommend the use of NSX specific holder bracket for the modulator than modifying the bracket that may come with the non-NSX modulator.








    Both modulators in the above photo are of AP1. Just the bracket difference.
    Left one with the NSX specific holder bracket and the Right one with the AP1 bracket.

    Even with the reduced weight compared to the classic ABS, it’s still fairly heavy and you really want secure fixing for the modulator considering the inertia under sudden impact.
    The use of proper bracket will also allow the use of proper NSX brake pipes without bending them and in the future, if you decide switching to NSX modulator, it will be a quick swap.


    Obviously, the point of this thread is cost saving so please make your own decision.



    Please select the appropriate relay for driving the ABS warning light circuit if using AP1 modulator.
    The I/F on AP1 modulator only draws tiny current so you will need the high switching sensitivity type and since it will be continuously ON unless the modulator detects ABS failure, you must select the contact spec suitable for this kind of application.
    This is probably due to S2000 using the digital gauge assy that the designers wanted to minimise the noise introduction by the use of ordinary mechanical relay that requires higher coil current and generates noise when switching On and Off.

    Personally, I would stay with the SSR mentioned in the original post based on its characteristic under cabin temperature that could reach well over 60degC under direct sun light and the target circuit design that is different based on the year models.

    For your reference, depending on the year model, the ABS warning light circuit is different and thus, the power consumption is different.
    There is additional mechanical power relay in the loop on the later model so the logic is revered and while the updated post of using the Omron relay is nice and another cost saving, not sure of the long term usage under high cabin temperature with continuously On status.



    By the way, you don’t compare ABS on dry, straight line.
    As others mentioned, under that kind of condition, the main factor is the friction coefficient and thus, your tyre/road surface and load on each tyre play the biggest part.
    You probably had better tyre than your friend and I don't know the spec of your brake but probably with the earlier smaller OEM brake caliper (brake balance massively towards the front) with aftermarket wheel or different rake between F and R rideheight compared to OEM.
    You may find that under certain speed and condition, continuously fully locking the tyre will stop at shorter distance than letting the ABS to do the work.

    Next time if you have the opportunity, please try these.
    Ideally on the controlled wet proving ground, layout the traffic cones with mid-large radius (R) corner that you are comfortable to enter at about 50mph.

    Approach the corner with steering wheel straight at 50mph, brake hard and almost immediately at the same time, turn the wheel to trace the corner R.
    Measure the total stopping distance as well as the gap between the car and the nearest traffic cone.

    Next, do exactly the same but on this occasion, turn the steering wheel first on entering the corner before immediately braking hard.

    In ideal world, both tests should show similar result but you may find very interesting and quite big difference especially on some of the modern production cars with stability control equipped.

    On our NSX, fortunately or unfortunately, there is no interaction between the ABS and TCS in the form of stability control.
    The result difference between NSX and non-NSX ABS modulator would be very interesting.





    You must have access to the SCS terminal on the ABS modulator from outside without disconnecting the big BLK/ORG connector.
    Otherwise, you will have big time resetting the error code.
    You never know what kind of error code already stored in the used ABS modulator and you can’t erase it by removing the fuse or disconnecting the battery.

    You must follow the specific procedure and timing involving the IG key, Brake pedal and the SCS terminal in order to reset it.



    Further info here including the comment section;
    http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/entry.php?1791-Meanwhile


    Kaz

  2. #12
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    Right, i have a computer working again, after a windows update toasted my hard drive (do a backup soon after you read this, and not just to another folder on the hard-drive, something external (and your emails if they don't stay on the email server!)

    when i say toasted, i mean to the point that this, or any other comp, doesn't even recognise it as a hard drive!!!!


    i shall continue!


    with the aid of wiring diagrams and pin outs (fortunately printed before the comp crash) i worked out what was what with the S2000 pigtail.... and made it a bit more user friendly for testing...





    meaning i could now access all the connections easily and mock up bits like the ignition connection, brake light and the dash light.


    the ABS light can be a bit tricky, but once you've got your head around the reverse logic AND switching 0v, rather than the conventional 12v it gets easier. you have to think of it as the ABS computer is switching the dash lamp OFF, rather than energising it.


    in the first instance, the dash lamp was simulated with an 3k resistor between +v and the led/abs light connection and an LED to 0v, the abs effectively shorting out the led when it's 'active', turning it off. the abs protected with the 3k resistor. this is ok for testing ,but no good to go into the car to drive the actual dash light, so i bought one of these.... a whole £2.25





    this gives me a relay that puts no load on the ABS unit, is optically isolated to make sure nothing untoward happens and has LEDs on it to tell me what's happening. with a switched high, or low input and a change over relay output, i'm sorted for all eventualities!
    aka Jonathan!!

    '92 charlotte green auto.... as a daily
    '37 Ford Y street rod......... something for the weekend!

    ...... if a photobucket pic is foggy, click it, and it'll take you to the clear version, yes, it's a clicking faff....

  3. #13
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    with the setup connected to a bench power supply, i connected the abs units, my test unit first (test because it's the dirtiest!) i was concerned i'd done something horribly wrong as the abs led stayed on. double checked, and tried again with the SCS terminal earthed.... after 2 second the relay board led (pretending to be the dash light) went off, and a fault code sequence began, one long, 2 sho....hang on, look at this

    (the red LED is on the relay board on the right!)


    (with the error code being displayed, i know the abs computer is working as it's doing what it is asked!)

    that's error code 12 (one long, 2 short) which is intermittent/bad abs sensor signal, and error 61 (6 long, one short) which is a low voltage error
    aka Jonathan!!

    '92 charlotte green auto.... as a daily
    '37 Ford Y street rod......... something for the weekend!

    ...... if a photobucket pic is foggy, click it, and it'll take you to the clear version, yes, it's a clicking faff....

  4. #14
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    using the reset procedure that Kaz kindly included in his 'abs upgrade support' thread http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.ph...pgrade-Support (and it saved me trying to find and download the S2000 service manual again!) i reset the test ABS unit... and now when i power up i get the expected 'ABS light on for 2 seconds' result





    the second ABS unit, although the ABS light was going off after 2 seconds has error codes 13 and 61 i shall reset these once in the car
    aka Jonathan!!

    '92 charlotte green auto.... as a daily
    '37 Ford Y street rod......... something for the weekend!

    ...... if a photobucket pic is foggy, click it, and it'll take you to the clear version, yes, it's a clicking faff....

  5. #15
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    i was going to start the wiring loom, but came across a slight problem......





    the 4 twisted pair patch leads i bought weren't quite that.... lacking some wires i fear! a quick moan and refund, off to source the right stuff!!!




    next step is to check the TCS outputs are there, so to that end i purchaced a 2001-2006 civic abs sensor



    (i didn't have an NSX one here, and it was £11 delivered rather than the £100 for the NSX equivalent! if i bought an NSX one, you KNOW it wouldn't be the one that next fails!)


    they are basically a wire wrapped around a magnet, so once i've checked the resistance is in the right area for the NSX system, i'll use it to give me a signal when put it near a cogged wheel in my lathe...
    Last edited by britlude; 08-10-2016 at 04:11 PM.
    aka Jonathan!!

    '92 charlotte green auto.... as a daily
    '37 Ford Y street rod......... something for the weekend!

    ...... if a photobucket pic is foggy, click it, and it'll take you to the clear version, yes, it's a clicking faff....

  6. #16
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    Where was I…..


    3 ABS pumps, 2 connectors, a load of OEM pipes and bracket, a bunch of wire and some connectors!
    Made up a test strip board, and testing can begin….


    Set up the civic abs sensor on the lather with a random steel gear,


    and made sure it was working…..



    We have a nice wave on the ‘scope! (That’s what the disconnected abs sensor gives out when it’s near the spinning cog of the abs bit on the axles!)


    Unfortunately I couldn’t see anything on the pulse outputs (sad face) I tried with the second abs pump, and that was the same.


    Now, both my pumps are ….. ‘006-V95-139B’ ..... you can just make it out...


    aka Jonathan!!

    '92 charlotte green auto.... as a daily
    '37 Ford Y street rod......... something for the weekend!

    ...... if a photobucket pic is foggy, click it, and it'll take you to the clear version, yes, it's a clicking faff....

  7. #17
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    and careful study of Kaz’s S2000 ABS thread, showed that unit to be a ‘-139A’… is this a different software revision with tps tweaks???? Only one way to find out… order yet another S2000 ABS unit! Fortunately they are stupidly cheap!!!!
    So I now have a ‘-139A’ version…..




    Alas still no signal, I must be doing something wrong….. Turns out I was.


    According to the manual, the TPS output is 0v-5v square wave, referenced to zero, so probing the scope across zero and the o/p pin showed nothing. I set the test rig up with a battery, just in case there were some ground loop effect with the bench power supply and the scope… no, then set it up on the car just to make sure the abs sensor was giving slightly differing outputs, again no…


    Put in a pull up resistor on the probe, I now see a nice square wave output on the tps output! Hurrah… Once again, lucky they are cheap!

    I hate IC logic that sinks current rather than sourcing it sometimes!!!!

    HOWEVER…. I only see an output on the FRONT ABS signal lines. Now I have the pull up resistor, I see that FLP and FRP are pulled low by the ABS computer, but RLP and RRP are floating. So my aim of fitting the S2000 ABS unit and still getting a functioning TCS is dead in the water…


    Now I know many don’t like the original/classic/clunky TCS, but as I use my car all year, including rain ice and snow, the TCS does come in handy, although harsh, it does help, so looks like the not cheap NSX ABS pump is on the cards… at least I’ve spread the component purchase price!


    On a more positive note, I got new cabling for the conversion loom, and began making up the lead…. Gave up on sourcing 8 way multicore in the right size, too large, or too small were all that’s available, unless I want to buy 100m of the stuff!!!





    Then noticing the reference pic I’d had printed out was the ONLY upgrade loom with the lead exiting the same side as the orange plunger!

    A quick revision…..



    Oh well, off to spend some money…..
    Last edited by britlude; 04-11-2016 at 03:43 PM.
    aka Jonathan!!

    '92 charlotte green auto.... as a daily
    '37 Ford Y street rod......... something for the weekend!

    ...... if a photobucket pic is foggy, click it, and it'll take you to the clear version, yes, it's a clicking faff....

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by britlude View Post
    Where was I…..


    3 ABS pumps, 2 connectors, a load of OEM pipes and bracket, a bunch of wire and some connectors!
    Made up a test strip board, and testing can begin….


    Set up the civic abs sensor on the lather with a random steel gear,


    and made sure it was working…..



    We have a nice wave on the ‘scope! (That’s what the disconnected abs sensor gives out when it’s near the spinning cog of the abs bit on the axles!)


    Unfortunately I couldn’t see anything on the pulse outputs (sad face) I tried with the second abs pump, and that was the same.


    Now, both my pumps are ….. ‘006-V95-139B’ ..... you can just make it out...


    You are having a laugh Johnathan, surely!!!!
    it looks more like something out of back to future than a winters project, this posting is very interesting, I love it.👏👏👏
    Pride.

    1992 My beloved Red/Black manual NA1.😎
    1992 Chevy Lumina apv Rockford Fosgate sound system demo van.🙉
    2003 Hartge Mini Cooper S (2 x UK & 1 x European sound quality finals winner) 🏆 

    "The NSX's greatest victory was to WIN the 1995 Le Mans 24hr GT2 Class"
    ..............and guess what, it was a RED one but of course.  

  9. #19
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    right a bit more digging on the s2000 ABS pumps.... as I've ordered a proper bona-fide NSX ABS pump, i thought i'd investigate the S2000 ABS pump a little further, find out just what's going on... so i popped the tops off!


    Look like this inside….



    the first -139B ....


    spot the 4 pads near the end, the ones without the little link wire... guess what pins they got to.....



    Yes, that's the connection to the 4 TPS outputs at the plug socket, so that'll explain why there's no signals there, apart from some noise!


    Another angle



    the -139A


    again there's the 4 bare pads for the TPS outputs
    aka Jonathan!!

    '92 charlotte green auto.... as a daily
    '37 Ford Y street rod......... something for the weekend!

    ...... if a photobucket pic is foggy, click it, and it'll take you to the clear version, yes, it's a clicking faff....

  10. #20
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    this is the second -139B



    hmmm... this one has only 2 pads not connected, the front TPS outputs are interconnected between the connector pins and PCB, so the front FLP and FRP are there..... all three circuit boards look the same, with the same components missing (empty placement pads) on all 3 boards


    now, i shall have an experiment, to see if adding the other 2 links gives me a RRP and RLP outputs to the connector, HOWEVER, this will just be for experiment!!!


    this is just for curiosity... I'm NOT going to put a hacked/'jerry-rigged' ABS system in my car, I've no idea how it might affect the ABS circuit function!

    another thought... it would be interesting to pop the top off the AP2 S2000 ABS to see if it has the same circuit-board as the AP2 S2000 has TPS....
    aka Jonathan!!

    '92 charlotte green auto.... as a daily
    '37 Ford Y street rod......... something for the weekend!

    ...... if a photobucket pic is foggy, click it, and it'll take you to the clear version, yes, it's a clicking faff....

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