Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 64

Thread: NSX Resurrection attempt

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Bucks, UK
    Posts
    2,231
    Blog Entries
    2683

    Default

    Thought about replying back to your email but in case your NSX is still at the shop, I wanted to show some respects to the people diagnosing the issue for you so decided to reply through here than behind the scene.

    VSS is a very simple circuit. Also, being as a Japanese production car, the spec of VSS frequency is specified by JIS so regardless of the car maufactures, wheel diameter, etc, it will follow that spec.


    VSS on our NSX is just three wires.
    12V power supply, GND and the VSS output. It will be 0 -> 5V square wave form.
    It's driven by the thin metal ring on the DF body so you need to lift up the rear of the car and rotate the wheel with your hand.
    As your NSX is with the electronics engineers, it's quite easy to test.

    Not sure exactly what kind of issues you are having but did you get multiple warning lights for the VSS?
    VSS is shared with many devices such as ECU, EPS, AT controller, Cruise control, etc so if you have VSS failure, you will not only have speedo issue but also CEL and other warning lights will be triggered depending on the spec of your NSX. Best to read the error code first.


    Kaz



  2. #12

    Default

    Thanks Kaz, really appreciate your input and anything that can help these guys to fix the issue, the quicker I can get the car back on the road.

    Camco Automotive couldn't do any more with the car so I took it to Vtec Direct in Cheshire.

    The VSS has been replaced already a few weeks ago, the problem is there is no feed to the service connector so the paper clip short process to get the engine codes is currently unavailable. I probably am going about this the wrong way and should get them to look at the service connector and get that working first so that we can then check the engine error codes.

    As for warning lights the TCS light and CEL lights are on. The EPS light can be off till I hit the first speed bumps or it is on from when the car is started. Some times the Electronic Power Steering works, other times it doesn't seem to work at all.

    Vtec Direct seem to think something is blocking the 5v feed around the car, this may be due to bad earthing or some piece of equipment has been tapped into the loom causing a problem. I will let them know what has been suggested and see what they can come up with.

    On another note I Have managed to acquire a centre console with the ashtray and cigarette lighter for £200 although it does need some refurbishing. Is that a good price?
    Family Car: Range Rover L322
    Sports Car: Porsche 911 C4
    Long Term Project: Honda NSX 99' 3.0 V6 Auto
    Facebook; NSX in the City
    check out my instagram jivaldinho and Supercarsofmcr

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Bucks, UK
    Posts
    2,231
    Blog Entries
    2683

    Default

    I believe your NSX is JDM so if you can post the first 3digits of the VIN (the numbers *** as shown later) after the code NA1-***, I can understand some of the spec (DBW, non-DBW, EPS controller spec, etc) of your NSX.
    Please do not publish full VIN on here for security reason.


    I know it's AT and although you mentioned that it's 99 year model, it's probably registered in 1999 in UK but the build spec could be different.
    For example, I own JDM NA1-120 type. This means that it's 1994 model.
    Some example of the first 3 digits after the code NA1-***.

    NA1-100: Original model. Aug/90 but known as 91 model, E-NA1 spec
    NA1-110: 92, 93 models inc. Type-R, E-NA1 spec
    NA1-120: 94 model, E-NA1 spec
    NA1-130: 95, 96 models, introduction of DBW, E-NA1 spec
    NA1-140: 97, 98 models, E-NA1 spec
    NA1-150: 99, 00 models, GH-NA1 spec


    EPS error code #33 is for the VSS so presuming that your new sensor that you replaced was tested and found to be OK, something is disturbing the VSS signal line.
    If your speedo is converted from KPH to MPH, then you will find small converter box somewhere on the car or someone may have modified the speedo circuit board directly.
    It is possible that this converter circuit is broken/not working and thus pulling down the entire VSS signal across the car.


    CEL and TCS warning lights could be related to the same issue such as the O2 sensor.
    I would first fix the CEL issue and then come back to the TCS. As you are not getting the ABS warning light, the TCS one is not related to the wheel speed sensor signal. The raw signal of w/speed sensor is first monitored by the ABS controller and then the signal is filtered and level converted inside ABS before transferred to the TCS controller so any w/speed related failure will first trigger the ABS warning light and then almost at the same time or within a few seconds, the TCS one will be triggered as well.


    The SCS service connector (blue 2pin connector at passenger footwell area) is a simple circuit and just there to assist the person diagnosing the error code stored on each controllers without removing the interior panels.
    One of the terminal at this connector is permanentaly connected to the GND and the other one combines all of the SCS pin at each controllers into a single wire.

    So, if your SCS service connector is not working for some reason, you just do it the hard way by getting to the controller box, GND the SCS pin at the controller without disconnecting any connectors and then turn the IG key On.

    Depending on the cause of your SCS service connector issue (and the position of the wiring damge/issue on SCS circuit if it is related to the wiring), connecting the SCS pin at one controller to the GND may allow you to read all error codes on other controllers as well.
    Otherwise, you need to do the same process on each controllers.


    On RHD model like JDM and UK spec, ECU is behind the driver seat and the TCS controller is behind the passenger side.
    Find the pinout of SCS terminal at each controller through the Workshop manual for your year model and just insert the test probe from behind the terminal pin at the connector without disconnecting it.
    Then GND the other end and turn the IG key On.
    If you see the blinking warning light, you have successfully created the SCS circuit.


    If your NSX is at VTEC direct, then Andy owns/owned NSX and several owners are carrying out their services there so they knows the car.


    Good luck.

    Kaz



  4. #14

    Default

    You ARE a sucker for aggro - best of luck getting it sorted!

    Sikaflex 221 is your friend for sorting those body leaks - and good seals round the rear lights.

    IIRC, there is a box (one of several!) behind the glove box, which drops the voltage to 5v for the bus system. There is a spare 5v port on it which you might need to tap. At least until you can find which bits are missing/incorrectly wired.

    The good thing is, being hand-built, there is quite a bit of adjustment in the front panel alignment. The bad thing is, it takes time & patience to get it looking square.
    Nick



    “I find myself irresistibly attracted to cars that nobody else buys. The NSX is a classic of the genre because nobody buys it and yet it’s a fantastic car. It’s got a wonderful compactness and simplicity and unpretentiousness to it. Honda rudely continues to make them whether we like it or not, even though there can be no commercial logic in doing so — I thoroughly admire that.” Rowan Atkinson

  5. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz-kzukNA1 View Post
    I believe your NSX is JDM so if you can post the first 3digits of the VIN (the numbers *** as shown later) after the code NA1-***, I can understand some of the spec (DBW, non-DBW, EPS controller spec, etc) of your NSX.
    Please do not publish full VIN on here for security reason.

    Hi Kaz,

    I checked the online NSX vin decoders and none of them make sense unless they were only for the american markets.

    My partial Vin is NA1-240X

    The speedometer is now working although the car is still in limp mode and the TCS and CEL lights are still on. I cant remeber how they fixed this but I remember them vaguely saying that the place where the block for the speedometer was supposed tpo be was in the rong place on the ECU. I will have to clarify this.

    At first they thought the loom had been replaced but everything seems like it has been untouched as far as the layout of the loom and wiring goes. Is it possible that the ECU might have been changed? are all NSX 3.0 Automatic ECU's the same? is there anyway to check this? It could be that the previous owner replaced the ECU with one from a model that wasn't compatible ie a 3.0 Manual?

    I am in no way an expert and just thinking out loud here. Again I really appreciate all the help that I have received. These forums are awesome.
    Family Car: Range Rover L322
    Sports Car: Porsche 911 C4
    Long Term Project: Honda NSX 99' 3.0 V6 Auto
    Facebook; NSX in the City
    check out my instagram jivaldinho and Supercarsofmcr

  6. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Graves View Post
    You ARE a sucker for aggro - best of luck getting it sorted!

    Sikaflex 221 is your friend for sorting those body leaks - and good seals round the rear lights.

    IIRC, there is a box (one of several!) behind the glove box, which drops the voltage to 5v for the bus system. There is a spare 5v port on it which you might need to tap. At least until you can find which bits are missing/incorrectly wired.

    The good thing is, being hand-built, there is quite a bit of adjustment in the front panel alignment. The bad thing is, it takes time & patience to get it looking square.
    Thanks Nick,

    Already looking for Sikaflex 221, I have had the carpet washed professionally and don't want to get it wet again so will need to clear the leaks up ASAP.

    Getting the alignment right has been a nightmare but it is getting there. The problem being the after market bonnet and bumper mean the after market headlamp covers don't seem to have the same fit as you may find on a standard NSX. I am sure there is more room for adjustment to getting the car looking square and tight but it will take some more effort.

    Also I have found out that this car has the NSX VIS Racing GT Widebody Kit fitted to it with some slight modifications i.e. filling in the seams for the rear bumper so the rear quarters and bumper all look like one piece.

    There is a lot of work to be done but I feel like it is getting there. The aggro might be apparent now but when it is finished I have no doubt it will be worth it... and yet it is so frustrating no being at that point now so i know what you are saying
    Family Car: Range Rover L322
    Sports Car: Porsche 911 C4
    Long Term Project: Honda NSX 99' 3.0 V6 Auto
    Facebook; NSX in the City
    check out my instagram jivaldinho and Supercarsofmcr

  7. #17

    Default

    My RH Headlamp fouls the bonnet lid very slightly - I think that's entirely as it left the factory.

    I hate it when aftermarket stuff has a poor fit, but since original is imperfect one cannot get too hung up about it, TBF.
    Nick



    “I find myself irresistibly attracted to cars that nobody else buys. The NSX is a classic of the genre because nobody buys it and yet it’s a fantastic car. It’s got a wonderful compactness and simplicity and unpretentiousness to it. Honda rudely continues to make them whether we like it or not, even though there can be no commercial logic in doing so — I thoroughly admire that.” Rowan Atkinson

  8. #18

    Default

    Update...

    The car has been with Vtec Direct for a few weeks now. Although i would love to have it back I know being patient is the best way forward with this project.

    Seems like part of the loom is missing. Behind the drivers seat near to where the ECU is situated are some plugs / looms joined together. 2 blue connectors and 2 grey connectors. The larger 16 pin grey connector should have a male end on it but on my car this is missing.

    https://plus.google.com/110837246966...ts/DXGU2wfgPEr

    The link above has the photos of the wiring. For some reason I cannot post pictures here.

    Can anyone tell me what this port / loom / connector is and where it goes?
    Family Car: Range Rover L322
    Sports Car: Porsche 911 C4
    Long Term Project: Honda NSX 99' 3.0 V6 Auto
    Facebook; NSX in the City
    check out my instagram jivaldinho and Supercarsofmcr

  9. #19

    Default

    Things just got a little weird

    According to the VIN the engine number should be C30A4- 8000006

    The actual Engine number is C30A4- 4000104

    Also the loom from the engine has an extra block connector that the interior loom hasn't got a connection for as per the previous post.

    So from my research and limited knowledge and the missing loom I think it is obvious this car has had an engine swap. They have gone from a 99 NSX engine to an older model. I went to a breaker who had 4 NSX's in various states. 2 were Autos and 2 were Manuals.

    What I Noticed was that there was 1 Auto NSX without the F-Matic which had the same style of connector from the engine with the 2 grey male blocks connecting to the interior loom.

    The 2nd Auto NSX with the F-Matic had the same interior loom connections as my car ie only the smaller grey female block.


    This suggests that I may have an older engine in my car (pre 95/96)

    I can get hold of an interior loom to match the incoming engine loom as well as an ECU but will this mean i lose the F-Matic option on my car or is there a way of by passing the need for the missing piece of loom? we have done exactly that to get the speedometer working which makes me think the the interior loom block changed over the years and the remaining wires can be patched to the wires coming in from the engine bay and get the car working. The only thing I cant work out is what would be missing.

    I don't know if it is clear from the pictures but we took part of the wire from the small block on the interior loom(orange wire) and connected to a wire on the other side of the missing block which is coming from the engine loom and the speedometer now works, the TCS light and the EPS light go off now and don't come back on, although the car is still in limp mode ie it wont go above 4000 rpm.


    As of this moment we cannot go any further on my car so i am in desperate need of some help.

    Obviously this is getting more and more confusing the more we uncover but I am desperate to get this car running right.


    Family Car: Range Rover L322
    Sports Car: Porsche 911 C4
    Long Term Project: Honda NSX 99' 3.0 V6 Auto
    Facebook; NSX in the City
    check out my instagram jivaldinho and Supercarsofmcr

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Bucks, UK
    Posts
    2,231
    Blog Entries
    2683

    Default

    Hi, Jivaldinho.
    As I don't know whether your NSX is still at Vtecdirect or not, I'm going to reply through here instead of replying back to your email to show some respect to the people working on your car.
    I don't like giving advice behind the scene while someone else is working on your NSX.


    By the way, you may want to consider posting technical questions in the 'Technical' forum and not in your 'Build' thread to keep it tidy.
    Take a look at Jonathan's (britlude) build thread.

    He posts the detail in different forum and paste the link into his 'Build' thread to keep it tidy.

    Otherwise, the build thread will become more like Q&A style or tends to go off topic and not expressing your own NSX build.

    I also don't check 'Build' thread so often that any questions in here may not be answered by me for a long time......



    Back to the topic.


    Initially, by looking at the photo of your rear bumper and without head light washer, I thought your NSX is JDM.
    However, after you provided me with the VIN info above, your NSX is actually European spec 1999model, Coupe, 4AT, EPS with 4 x O2 sensors, classic ABS, non-LEV, without the OBD2.
    Based on RHD, it is KE spec and thus, yours is UK model.


    It's not surprising to see just one grey connector on the chassis/engine loom as yours is originally a DBW model.
    However, your replacement enginge with serial code C30A4-4xxx is from the 1994 model.
    It's a non-DBW and thus, you will see extra grey connector on the engine loom.


    On the non-DBW model, TCS is done through the big extra stepping motor attached to the side of the TH body and it is driven by the TCS controller itself.

    On the DBW model, as it stands, it is 'Drive By Wire' so the TH body itself is the stepping motor and thus, TCS is still calculated within the TCS controller but driven by the ECU and no extra wires required.
    DBW also takes care of the cruise control, idle rpm control, rev limit, etc so you won't see the cruise control actuator under the bonnet, neither the EACV nor the fast idle air valve on the engine.
    Hence, just one grey connector on the chassis/engine loom although it's not just TCS related wires involved on this extra connector.


    For example, the VSS signal (Vehicle Speed Sensor) on the non-DBW engine loom is going through that extra grey connector and thus, you had to patch that orange wire to make it work on your DBW chassis loom.
    This also explains why your SCS blue terminal is not working to show the erorr code.
    Simply because you are missing the connection that is included in that extra connector.


    Also, without the connection to the grey connector, you may have problem getting the MAP (Pb) sensor signal as the Vcc sensor power supply (5.0V) is through this connector on the non-DBW engine loom.
    This will obviously cause fuel map look-up issue as NSX is based on rpm/Pb map control and without this, it will go into fail safe mode and fuel cut at 4,000rpm. Same thing if you don't have DBW TH body on DBW ECU. It will control the engine based on the TH pedal angle to predict the target TH position.


    So, the first step is to find out what has been done to run your replacement non-DBW engine/TH body on a DBW chassis loom.
    Although INJ was changed from 97 NA2 models, the one on NA1 stayed the same so that's fine.
    Not sure which ECU model you are using so that's another key factor.


    Please check the type of TH body (DBW, non-DBW), presence of TH cable or not, the ECU parts no. written on the label.
    It will start as 37820-.

    For 99 UK AT model, it is 37820-PR7-G16.
    For 94, it is -G14.

    If still using G16, you are very likely to be running DBW TH body otherwise it will go fail safe mode.
    Not sure how the secondary O2 sensors are connected to the ECU as there were only two O2 sensors on the engine loom of 94 model.


    Just post the photo of engine bay especially the area around the TH body from several different angle.

    Kaz
    Last edited by Kaz-kzukNA1; 21-10-2014 at 12:56 PM. Reason: MAP (Pb) sensor info added.

Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •