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Thread: Busted heads and furry fixings

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    Default Busted heads and furry fixings

    Over the years, whilst working on old cars and bikes, I’ve come to hate Philips [slot headed] fixings with a vengeance, it’s that sinking feeling of knowing that you will round the head off before it will screw out.

    New to me, is that the Philips headed fastener was doing just what it was designed to do, as a drive system it was designed to ‘cam out’ or extract under torque, such that the original monkeys couldn’t over-tighten and strip the fixing. Good news for box fresh components going in, bad news for rusty, furry fixings not wanting to come out.

    New to me also and the reason for the post; is that the OEM slot headed fixings on Hondas are NOT Philips but are manufactured to a JIS [Japanese Industrial Standard] form.
    JIS for slot headed screws looks like Philips but are not, the root between the drive is a different, deeper profile and was designed to lock and not to ‘cam out’.
    See the attached detail spec.
    JIS slot heads should [may?] be marked with a dimple to identify them, [check the door latch screw heads and a dimple stamping is just about visible].

    Thus the following scenarios exist,
    Philips screwdriver, Philips screw, designed to work together, designed to disengage under load. If it’s old and furry and the head strips – it’s what science intended.
    JIS screwdriver, JIS [as Honda OEM] screw, designed to work together, designed to be able to take full torque and to give a Zen like sense of nirvana.
    JIS screwdriver, Philips screw, will work together, should be better than Philips/Philips.
    Philips screwdriver, JIS screw, will not properly work as the screwdriver cannot get a full face of surface of contact and can and will damage the softer fixing.

    How to get JIS screwdrivers - with difficulty; as, save for Japanese companies, the world doesn’t readily accept they exist, let alone for the last 50 years.

    Easiest and cheapest – try the slotted screwdriver in the toolkit - honest.
    Put a new Philips screw in a vice and then try to turn it with a standard Philips screwdriver then try with the one from the toolkit, totally different feeling the Honda one does not try to slip.
    Replacement screwdriver blade from HUK part no 89102-538-000 yours for £2.30!

    From elsewhere, try Vessel or Hogan as [Japanese] manufacturers, the nicest I’ve come up with is Vessel 980 series Megadora that is also is an impact driver. See either www.tradesmanchoice.com or
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vessel-980...item2584c2b1bd

    That's the Christmas present for the wife solved then.
    Duncan
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Garden of England
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    2,772

    Default

    ....so the pozi-drive cross point screw/screwdrivers were to solve the philips problem that the JIS fixing had already solved!.....

    typical!
    aka Jonathan!!

    '92 charlotte green auto.... as a daily
    '37 Ford Y street rod......... something for the weekend!

    ...... if a photobucket pic is foggy, click it, and it'll take you to the clear version, yes, it's a clicking faff....

  3. #3

    Default

    Mmm ... mine always wants Christmas pressie ideas too ... thanx Duncan!
    Senninha

    'Too many manufacturers today are obsessed with lap times and power outputs at the expense of emotion and fun' Colin Goodwin

    S2 is signed by the NSX Project Leader Shigeru Uehara

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Senninha View Post
    Mmm ... mine always wants Christmas pressie ideas too ... thanx Duncan!
    I rather think Duncan was proposing this as a present for his wife Paul.

    Top man!
    2001 3.2 Circuit Blue Coupe with pop-ups!

    "If you want to argue that The Best Car in the World is a supercar, go ahead. But there is only one that makes the grade. Only one that's built properly.
    Gordon Murray knows.
    Rowan Atkinson knows.
    It's the Honda NSX."
    (J. Clarkson)

  5. #5

    Default

    Nothing like using the right tip for the screw.

    Don't get me started on six point sockets!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
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    I better start importing the Japanese プラスドライバー in time for the Christmas.
    I think I have been using these for nearly 30 years by now and still no problem with the tip.
    The tools are our friend.

    Kaz

  7. #7

    Default

    Please do!

    I have an old philips (inherited from my father) that is as good as new and works OK with JIS. It's hard as hell, and I think the pointy bit has worn down so it imitates a JIS.

    Modern bits are all just chocolate tools and good for nothing.
    Nick



    “I find myself irresistibly attracted to cars that nobody else buys. The NSX is a classic of the genre because nobody buys it and yet it’s a fantastic car. It’s got a wonderful compactness and simplicity and unpretentiousness to it. Honda rudely continues to make them whether we like it or not, even though there can be no commercial logic in doing so — I thoroughly admire that.” Rowan Atkinson

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