OK thanks Kaz, I'll remove some of the grease.
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OK thanks Kaz, I'll remove some of the grease.
Happy New Year everyone, hope you all had a great Christmas.
More progress, although I'm not getting in the garage as often as I'd like...... especially over the Christmas holidays, thanks to the Moderna booster.
Gearbox back in place. Awkward job to do with only one pair of hands, the small transmission lift helped but another pair of hands would've been useful for holding the clutch fork in a position to not hinder the final few cm's of mating the gearbox. In the end a piece of bent wire had to do.
For anyone else who may take this job on, I would say the main thing to remember is .....CLUTCH FORK, CLUTCH FORK, CLUTCH FORK !!! It hinders the removal & re-fitting of the gearbox if not held in a suitable position.
Clutch slave cylinder in place, now with dust boot. Worth mentioning the boot makes aligning the cylinder shaft awkward to align into the clutch fork, it's quite easy to think the shaft is engaged into the socket in the fork but there's a good chance it won't be, which wouldn't be ideal when you first press the clutch pedal.
Attachment 14483
Attachment 14475
Attachment 14476
New bearing guide.
Attachment 14477
Attachment 14478
Attachment 14479
Attachment 14480
LH driveshaft in place. I'm fitting brand new shafts from Insane Shafts.
Attachment 14481
Attachment 14482
A bit more work done this weekend. Started to replace the Air-con pip seals & remove the compressor & have it checked out/reconditioned, while the system has no charge. Looking along all the pipe runs, there's no visible sign of a leak, which is annoying, as where did all the gas go ?? There was no pressure in the system when I split the first joint.
Attachment 14490
Attachment 14491
Attachment 14492
Attachment 14493
Attachment 14494
Belt tensioner needs a new pulley, it's quite noisy, so a few more parts to order from Amayama.
Attachment 14495
5th photo.
Although you mentioned that your 'system was checked out/reconditioned', does it include the compressor?
That sticky looking debris at the service plate and the front housing is most likely the compressor oil.
How much oil did you manage to recover from the compressor body?
Not only the small o-rings at each pipe/hose fittings, the octagonal big gasket under the service plate and also the large diameter o-ring at the front and rear housing of the compressor body are common places for the leakage.
Kaz
Hi Kaz,
The compressor hasn't been checked yet, my guess is that this is the first time it's been removed in it's 31 years of age. I only had the system re-charged last year, after the condensers were replaced.
The sticky debris seems to be quite old IMO, I was expecting more signs of a fresh leakage from last summer, when the system stopped working and so far I've found none.
I haven't tried to drain any oil out of the compressor yet, so something to do but when the pipes were removed, there was hardly any seepage of oil from the hoses.
Is the compressor a unit a DIY-er could re-con ? Or is best for a professional ? I suspect specialist tools will be required.
Ive found this place https://automotivecompressor.co.uk and was thinking of giving them a try. Open to any other recommendations though.
Long time ago, I used to use compressor overhaul service in Japan because the re-built replacement was always readily available and cheaper than getting re-manufactured one from abroad.
If your compressor was operated with low oil level, chances are that you already have some level of worn metal piston, slider, disc, etc.
Therefore, refurbishing the existing one may not be the best option.
In fact, now-a-days, you can get hold of re-manufactured Denso 10PA15C one (new, not used) at reasonable price and since you have full access to the area, good time replacing it with a new one.
If your existing compressor is the original one with unknown service history of the a/c system, most likely, it will have some internal metal wear and tired rubber gasket + o-ring.
Remember that when you lose the refrigerant, you are also losing the compressor oil because it travels through the entire system along the refrigerant.
I remember you visited Bee Cool few times and re-charged using RS24 so your existing system must be still R12 spec from the factory.
http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/entry.php?232...r-33412-part-1
Please refer to the above blog for the available compressor option.
Very important to read the comment section of the above link for the mounting bracket offset, etc.
I normally recommend owners to switch to R134a and get Denso 471-1193 if doing major A/C refresh.
471-1193 requires the use of 97+ mounting bracket or transfer your existing CL/pulley set if you want to keep the original bracket.
You can also get re-manufactured new 91-96 CL/pulley set if you are staying with the original bracket.
Unfortunately, 471-1193 is out of stock at Rockauto at the moment but may be available somewhere else.
471-1194 is also R134a but for some reason, Desno fitted the pulley with the smaller diameter so not good.
Not the end of the world.
Just use the new compressor body and decide what to do with the bracket and the CL/pulley set.
You already have 91-96 mounting bracket so if your existing CL/pulley set is healthy, just swap it in.
Or, same as above, the re-manufactured new 91-96 CL/pulley set is available so can be replaced if your exiting set is already worn out.
If you want to use the 97+ bracket and if you are happy to acknowledge that it's not cost effective, then you could convert 471-1194 (91-96 offset) to -1193 spec (97+ offset) using the OEM 97+ CL/pulley set .
Only make sense if you can't wait for the out of stock 471-1193 to become available again and if you are keen to shift the compressor away from the aftermarket header.
Only about 8mm shift and the OEM 97+ CL/pulley set is not cheap if bought new....
AFAIK, there is no aftermarket 97+ CL/pulley set available but I think someone on here found the used replacement from different make/model.
I think it was from one of the Toyota model???
471-1424 is for R12 so the compressor oil is mineral (ND-OIL6) and not PAG (ND-OIL8, for the R134a and not for R12).
Some owners went for this one to prevent the hassle of dealing with the different spec of mounting bracket, CL/pulley diameter and the field coil connector.
If using R134a, you need to drain the fresh mineral oil out of the new compressor and replace it with ND-OIL8.
If you want to keep the mineral oil for some reason, use RS24.
POE can be used and seemed to be much better now so could be good option as it can handle both type of refrigerant but in the past, I was not fan of it.
If staying with the mineral oil, make sure to add extra amount as I 'think' Denso followed the old spec and not the updated total system amount through the Honda/Acuta TSB.
Most likely the 471-1424 is delivered with only 80ml of mineral oil when it should have been 120 +/-10ml.
You can easily measure it and tiny amount will be always left inside the compressor.
As you already exposed the system to the atmosphere, regardless of the option selected, you should consider flushing the system especially if replacing the compressor.
You don't want contaminated oil left inside the pipe, hose, evapo, condensor.
You must replace the drier/receiver again because you exposed the system long enough.
Cheap and if ordering the compressor from Rockauto, just get it at the same time.
If you are doing DIY, may want getting spare one for future usage in case you may find new issue somewhere else.
I normally leave the drier fitting and the compressor connection until the very last moment to minimise the moisture absorbed.
If replacing the compressor, should replace exp valve as well.
Very cheap but be careful when trying to remove the existing one.
The connection is most likely seized by now and with the limited space at the opening of the evapo behind the blower motor fan, you could struggle using the double wrenches.
If you kink the aluminium pipe, you may end up replacing the evapo that will force you to take out the entire dashboard out of the cabin.
Not something you want to do during the winter time as all these aged plastic parts can easily break unless warmed up first.
Good luck.
Kaz
Thanks Kaz, this is an excellent idea & if I'd have stopped to think, it is the ideal time to convert the system to R134a, which will make any future servicing far easier, not being dependant on RS24.
Looking at the 471-1193, with a '97 mounting bracket, would seem to make sense to me, as I'm not sure the CL/pulley from my current unit is worth taking the risk with, just to retain the current '91 mounting bracket. I've been quoted anywhere from £150-£280 to re-con the current unit, so from a cost effectiveness point of view, it wouldn't be much more expensive, to upgrade to the '97 set-up. I guess a R134a re-gas will be cheaper than another RS24 re-gas aswell.
The evaporator was replaced a few years ago but the system hasn't been disconnected until i removed the compressor a few days ago. I've covered the open hoses securely to prevent moisture. So pretty confident there will be no moisture ingress into the system.
Thanks again.
Continuing on from the my last post, I've bought a new air-con compressor. Had to get the 471-1194 model from the US, as 47-1193 wasn't available, as Kaz had pointed out. I'm now waiting on a '97 mounting bracket & a '97 clutch/actuator assy, the later coming from Rock Auto. Strangely Rock Auto specify the same replacement part number for both a '91 MY & '97 MY, whereas I was under the impression the two assys were different, due to the mounting bracket offsets as documented in Kaz's posts.
Rock Auto part numbers
AC Delco 154750
Four Seasons 47598
AC Delco not currently available & the Four Seasons assy is also listed for a 1994 Toyota Celica.
Amayama part numbers are
'91 389-PR7-A01 (full clutch & stator assy)
'97 389-PR7-A04 Clutch 38924-PR7-A01 Stator Assy
I was sort of hoping to use my current '91 mounting bracket & swap my clutch/stator assy but looking at the clutch, I think a replacement is due, eve though it did seem to function well enough, during the brief time the air-con worked last summer.
Attachment 14505
Attachment 14506
Attachment 14507
i think on the later cars the AC pump was moved outward with the updated bracket to get it away from the revised exhaust manifold, and the pulley was moved inward towards the pump body to correct the difference
Hi, Wix.
471-1194 has smaller pulley diameter (about 125mm) compared to the OEM one or the 471-1193 (about 140mm).
Hard to see in your photo but the connector on the -1194 would be also wrong.
By the way, 471-1193 just got back in stock at the Rockauto.
AFAIK, there is no aftermarket 97+ CL/Pulley/Field coil set with the proper offset matching the 97+ mounting bracket listed under the Acura NSX section of the Rockauto site.
Therefore, the two parts listed (#154750 & #47598) in your post are most likely to be 91-96 offset spec.
Could you measure the diameter?
Also, kindly take a photo showing the mounting offset, just like the two yellow arrows as per the photo shown later.
Not the end of the world as your existing friction material looked worn out so best replaced with your new aftermarket ones.
Most likely, the aftermarket one will have 91-96 mounting offset, just like your existing one.
Just re-use your existing 91 - 96 mounting bracket and not the 97+ one.
Please keep your 97+ mounting bracket as I'm quite sure someone will need it when doing the A/C Refresh.
I may even buy it from you in the future if I was asked to do another A/C Refresh.
Since this is your build thread, didn't want posting too many photos and tried placed multiple links to my blog, etc.
However, for this topic, probably best placing the actual photos here so that you can refer to them easily in the future.
The A/C belt is installed over the 3 x pulley - the crank, the idler and the compressor one.
While the offset of the mounting bracket was changed for 97+, the crank and the idler pulley stayed at the same position/alignment for all year models.
Thus, the geometry of the compressor pulley had to be changed.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0
This is the offset of the mounting bracket.
The compressor body is exactly the same as 10PA15C for all year models.
Same dimension, mounting geometry, etc and just R12 or R134a refrigerant difference.
The mating thread on the eng block side kept the same geometry.
The blue line is the position of the a/c idler pulley bracket.
Stayed the same for all models and thus, straight line shows the same geometry on both the 91-96 and 97+ mounting brackets.
I also measured the distance between the eng block mounting hole at the top right of the bracket and the threaded hole at the top left for fixing the compressor.
With the 97+ mounting bracket, the entire compressor body would be shifted outward about 8mm.
Thus, the compressor pulley design had to compensate for it.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0
As indicated by the two arrows, 97+ pulley set has changed its design and being mounted much closer to the compressor body compared to the 91-96 pulley.
So, always keep the relationship between the mounting bracket and the compressor pulley spec.
Kaz
Hi Kaz,
As soon as all the parts arrive, I'll post an update to answer your questions.
I'm with you though on the new pulley/clutch from Rock Auto, I think it will be '91-'96 spec. Hopefully with the '97 mounting bracket & whatever the pulley does turn out to be, I have all the components to mount the new compressor correctly.
The connector on 471-1194 does indeed have the wrong electrical connector & the smaller diameter pulley, which I will measure when next in the garage.
Parts have arrived, so here's some photos to answer some of the questions on an earlier post.
New pulley & clutch from Rock Auto, large diameter
Attachment 14508
Attachment 14509
pulley from new compressor 471-1194, small diameter
Attachment 14510
Rock Auto pulley against new Compressor 471-1194
Attachment 14511
and against the original R12 compressor from my car
Attachment 14512
Attachment 14513
Rock Auto Actuator against original R12 are the same
Attachment 14514
Attachment 14515
and '97 mounting bracket.
Attachment 14516
and a few more parts
Attachment 14517
I think the Rock Auto pulley/clutch assy is the later '97 offset, as it doesn't have the same offset as the original off my car. Confirmation when I've actually assembled them to the new compressor.
Hi, Wix.
Thank you for taking your time for all these feedback.
Much appreciated.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0
Interesting to see where the pulley sits once the snap ring installed.
Kaz
No probs Kaz, glad to help confirm all the fitment issues with a compressor change to R134.
Original R12 compressor hose attachment plate removed, internals look clean, which is a good sign.
Attachment 14518
This compares the original '91-'96 compressor pulley alignment with the 471-1194 with the Rock Auto pulley assy. As can be seen, the Rock Auto assy is most definitely the later '97 offset, the belt run being closer to the compressor body.
Attachment 14519
New tensioner pulley & adjustment screw attached, the bracket cleaned up quite well.
Attachment 14520
New compressor & Rock Auto pulley attached to the original '91-'96 compressor mounting bracket. Photo doesn't really, due to fish effects but there is a definite mis-alignment.
Attachment 14521
Attachment 14522
Old '91-'96 bracket off the engine & the new '97 bracket.
Attachment 14523
Completed assy now mounted to the '97 bracket.
Attachment 14524
Attachment 14525
with the belt on, which shows perfect alignment.
Attachment 14526
Changed a few more air-con pipe seals, one of the old & new from the compressor hoses. Needless to say but they weren't in the best shape, so maybe the seals were the cause of the gas leakage.
Attachment 14527
So final spec, for future reference.
Rock Auto pulley/clutch/actuator assy - Four Seasons (no Denso parts available at time of ordering) - 47598 ('97 MY Pulley offset)
Denso R134 compressor 471-1194
'97 MY compressor mounting bracket 38930-PR7-A01
More fun in the garage today,
dry fit of new driveshaft & intermediate shaft
Attachment 14528
New intermediate shaft has a larger shaft diameter, I guess this was an specification upgrade during the cars life.
Attachment 14529
and more air-con seal changes
Attachment 14530
Attachment 14531
Attachment 14532
Attachment 14533
Hopefully this will be the final chapter in this winters overhaul. Fitted the last few bits back to the car, filled the gearbox with MTF3 & torqued everything up. Then came the moment to start the car & test to see that the clutch operated correctly, with it still on the ramp. BUT, I couldn't engage any gears properly & couldn't get into reverse at all, there was definitely no proper dis-engagement of the clutch........As you might guess, the air became a tad blue, at the possibility of having to remove the gearbox & clutch again.
After an email to Kaz & doing a few searches on the forums, I had a few ideas. Kaz suggested re-doing the clutch initialisation procedure & checking the pedal travel adjustment. Apparently the mid plate could get knocked out of place, if you struggle to get the gearbox back onto the engine, which did happen to me, working alone. I'd definitely recommend getting an assistant for anyone else who might attempt to do a DIY clutch change.
I re-set the initialisation and clutch pedal travel as per Kaz's video & re tested to see if the gears selected correctly & success, every gear could be engaged easily including reverse. I have yet to test drive the car, as I need to borrow a torque wrench to tighten the driveshaft axle nuts up, my largest torque wrench maxes out at 210n/m & the nut is 335n/m but fingers crossed, there'll be no more gear selection issues when I do go for a drive.
I also replaced the two air-con pipe seals at the front bulkhead. Not the easiest of tasks.....
Attachment 14540
but the two seals were in good shape, compared to some of the other seals I've replaced from the under floor connections but new ones now in the cleaned up joints.
I haven't posted for sometime on my ongoing maintenance of my NSX, mainly as I've not needed to but this year I needed to tackle the gearbox and driveshafts again. My original gearbox was showing its age and mileage of 200K, with a noisy, clunky diff, the main box being ok. I also needed to replace the driveshafts again, which was quite annoying as, I'd bought shafts from Insane Shafts in America, rated to 500BHP but they started knocking after only a few thousand miles. So I had my original OEM ones sent away for a rebuild at Driveshaft UK https://www.driveshaftuk.com last year.
Attachment 15013
I bought a gearbox from Goldtop of the forum, a while ago, so I had this sitting in the garage ready for the time to do the swap, which is a JDM spec box with around 65K miles covered. I also decided to replace the clutch with a Science of Speed single plate 275 clutch & flywheel assy. This is very nicely engineered and weighs 5kg less than a twin plate OEM assy.
Attachment 15005
Attachment 15006
Attachment 15011
Attachment 15012
To help with dropping and raising the gearbox, I fashioned a very basic winch by strapping some left over wooden planks to some joist hangers, and suspending the gearbox on some rope, connected to a small pulley. This worked really well & the allowed me to align the gearbox a lot easy than trying to just use my small transmission lift, as I could easily align the gearbox to the engines angle.
Attachment 15007
Attachment 15008
Attachment 15009
Everything was going well, until I tried to re-fit the clutch slave cylinder & I found the clutch fork was too close to the rear side of the small aperture not allowing enough space to re-attach the cylinder, so there was only one thing to do & that was to drop the gearbox out again. Fortunately I hadn't fitted a lot of things back to the car, so didn't take long but was frustrating. The reason for the mis-positioned clutch fork being the clutch bearing being out of position in the fingers of the pressure plate.
This photo showing a correctly attached bearing.
Attachment 15010
Seems I can only upload a limited amount of photos to each post, hence the reason for this second post to continue the story.
I also bought Goldtop's DC Sports exhaust last year, so I swapped my Tubi system for this, while the car had it's rear end apart.
Attachment 15014
Tubi system removed, which I guess I'll put up for sale, as I have 3 exhausts now, these two & a standard system, ready for when I ever put the car back to standard.
Attachment 15017
Another job I tackled, was to have a go at re-flashing the front bumper lower bib, to try & improve its looks, after 30 odd years of being scraped on road surfaces. I used a heat gun and then scrapped the worst scratches with a Stanley knife blade and various grades of sand paper the smooth the surface out & then used the heat gun again to soften the top surface, which brought the black colour back to the surface.
This photo shows the before heat flashing on the left & after on the right.
Attachment 15015
Attachment 15016
Overall, the bib is looking a lot better than it was.
No offence but could it be that the "after" picture is missing?
Well spotted Lars....Quote:
Originally Posted by Heineken
Here are some of them finished, a lot better than they were but not like new, just need to get the car re-sprayed now....... Probably the next biggest job still to do...
Attachment 15021
Attachment 15022
Certainly an improvement :)