The nice blue car has been collected by the owner now.
About 150 photos were taken to support all the services carried out and they were copied on to the CD and handed to the owner.
Attachment 5703
Another happy NSX and owner :).
Kaz
Printable View
The nice blue car has been collected by the owner now.
About 150 photos were taken to support all the services carried out and they were copied on to the CD and handed to the owner.
Attachment 5703
Another happy NSX and owner :).
Kaz
Thanks Kaz,Quote:
Originally Posted by kzukNA1
That confirms what I thought and mine behaved in the same way i.e. would accelerate beyond 71mph but return to it as soon as you let off the button. Mine is a DBW car so would be tricky to fix. I guess an entire UK/Euro ECU might do it but there'd probably be other little issues arising from the swap.
To be honest I never use cruise in the UK (my Merc and Audi have it) as our roads are just too crowded. It would come in useful for the odd Euro jaunt though.
Cheers
Mark
Greetings all,
Great day out today for Supercar Sunday at Gaydon, llovely to see so many of these beatiful cars.
Noticed a number of JDM models and wanted to answer the questions within this thread regarding the Cruise Control on JDM cars.
If you have a JDM car you probably have an electronic Speed Devider installed which reprofiles the pulse stream from the wheel sensor in order to adjust the KPH signal generated by the car into MPH for the Dash, speedo etc,
As the cruise ECU utilises the same pulse strem to determine its "set" speed all you have to do is patch this into the output of the speeddivider that goes onto the dash. This way when the car is doing 70,80 or whatever cruising speed you want the cruise thinks its doing 50,60 etc which is under the JDM 71 Mph limit and allows the cruise to operate perfectly.
Kaz mentione dthis briefly and I am just posting this to validate his preposal as like most of his suggestions ( from reading here ) this works perfectly after I modified my Car in just this way many years ago.
Best Regards
//Max
Hi, all.
Based on the result of my Health check service, this time, I was asked to work on the suspension area, ABS, A/C cleaning and so on.
1. Bonnet release
Attachment 5768
Well, I started to work on this NSX but every time when I tried to open the bonnet, it was stuck in the original position and I couldn’t open it. I had to hold the opener upwards and pull the bonnet to open it. As I didn’t like to return the car in this status, I decided to remove the entire lock mechanism, soaked it in the cleaner and re-greased it. Now, it opens freely.
2. Bilstein damper with OEM early Coupe Spring
Attachment 5769 Attachment 5770 Attachment 5771
We spent long hours discussing about the chassis setup and for the damper/spring, we decided to go for the Bilstein damper with OEM spring.
For this combination, I always use new bushes and mounting rubber so placed the order to Japan. Attachment 5772
I only drove the car to/from the alignment place but I already found it was a good combination to meet his demand and budget.
3. Stabi link, stabi bush, tierod/rack end
Attachment 5777 Attachment 5773
While replacing the damper/spring kit, we also replaced the old and tired stabi links and stabi bushes. Removing the locking nut on the stabi link is always the challenge as quite often, the hex hole is rusted and too weak to hold the big torque on loosening the self locking nut. In fact, for one of the link, I had to cut the shaft to release it from the stabilizer.
Quite often, I found small movement on the passenger side tierod/rack end but on this NSX, both sides were rattling. So, new parts were installed before going to the alignment place.
4. Alignment
Attachment 5774
Back to my favourite 2Hr alignment session. From time to time, I found seized alignment bolt even on NSX but this one was really tough. After fighting against some of the nuts and bolts, the final alignment result came out beautifully. Although it is a very old frame, no severe damage to the chassis and thus, perfect alignment to my own setup.
5. ABS
Attachment 5775 Attachment 5776
ABS has been neglected for a long time so when I used my SST to drain the old fluid, some of the debris from the ABS were trapped inside the one way valve of the SST and when I lifted it, almost all of the ABS fluid was released on the floor… After flushing the system several times, I managed to push the debris out of the one way valve so my SST function was recovered.
Unfortunately, I found that one of the four solenoid was already dead no matter how we flush/activate it. I could disassemble the unit and try to refurbish it but instead, it would be best to convert it to the latest ABS system so that will be on the future menu.
6. A/C Evaporator cleaning
Unfortunately, when NSX was designed, there was no plan to fit cabin air filter like the modern production cars. Because of this, you’ll be surprise to see or may be, I should say, you don’t want to know how dirty the air could be inside the cabin. This is one of the reasons why the fan on the cabin air temperature sensor starts to make some noise after several years.
You may find lots of dirt around the air inlet of the blower motor unit. Once you have managed to remove it, you can see the evaporator.
Attachment 5782 Attachment 5778 Attachment 5779
This one looks very dirty but in fact, not too bad. In Japan, the summer is very hot and humid so the A/C is continuously being used and thus, lots of moisture is always at the evaporator resulting in black dirt or even sometimes some mould on the surface of evaporator.
First, blow out as much dirt as possible. Then, wash it with water followed by the cleaner. Wait for a while and then rinse it with plenty of water.
Attachment 5780 Attachment 5781
Don’t be tempted to clean the surface fin of the evaporator as they are so fragile that you will do more damage than cleaning it. Just use reasonably high pressure to apply the cleaner and rinsing water. Once you are done, spray some medical alchohol or similar product to disinfect any germ.
Attachment 5784 Attachment 5785
As I don’t like dirt to get inside again, I normally make simple cabin air filter attached to the intake. This is good enough until I make something out of FRP and commercially available cabin air filter.
7. Cabin air temperature sensor
Attachment 5783 Attachment 5786 Attachment 5787
The cabin air quality was so bad that I found so many dust and debris on the temperature sensor. It was also making quite annoying noise so although it was not requested from the owner, I decided to clean it. This is what I found and I’m glad I cleaned it….
8. Door lock switch
Attachment 5788 Attachment 5789 Attachment 5790
Quite often, I was asked to investigate the electrical issues on NSX and one of the common failures is related to the non-waterproof connector being used inside the door. On this NSX, the driver side door lock sw was not working at all.
After long years, the moisture corroded the GND pin on the non-waterproof connector and lost part of the contact point. In order to prevent this from happening again, decided to use gold plated terminal with grease inside the connector. Now, it is fine…
9. Painting wiper arm
Attachment 5791 Attachment 5792 Attachment 5793
Black is very important for the presentation of your NSX. For example, it will make great appearance if you have nice black colour at the front lower spoiler, the upper seal of front windscreen, the tyre, the pillar and so on. Unfortunately, our wiper arm is very old design and sticks out behind the bonnet resulting in chip by the stone, etc. Also, if you wash the car regularly and if you are not careful, you can gradually scrape off the paint from the wiper arm.
So, it would be nice to spend some time painting them. Strip the old paint off and apply several coats of primer first. Then, wet/dry sand it down a little to get smooth surface and wash and dry it. De-grease it and then apply several coats of nice mat finish black paint. Now it looks much better.
10. A/C gas leakage
Attachment 5794
There are several common places to check for the A/C gas leakage on our NSX. The worst part to find the leakage is at the evaporator. While I was cleaning the evaporator, unfortunately, I found the leakage there. This is a big job to repair as we need to first remove the entire interior panel (yes, the whole one in front of the driver and passenger seat…), take out the evaporator and heater core as a package and then replace/repair the evaporator. As this NSX is using the old R12 system and although alternative R12 gas in available, we’ll be replacing the compressor, pressure valve, O-rings and so on to convert it into R134a system in the future.
The next stage is the complete Brake service, Driveshaft refurbishment and so on.
Just waiting for the parts to arrive…
Regards,
Kaz
I have a 92 nsx 39K genuine miles in vgc.
Mechanically, just has had full 60k mileage service, belts by main dealer in Belfast.
mechanically perfect.
Would like someone /you to review all ancillary items /your overview checklist?
Bose radio crackling. Air con weak (Mechanically OK) Most likely electrics
Would you be interested /timefames/ logistics etc.
Seamus
Regards
Kaz,
I gave my wiper arms to a mate that was getting some bits powder coated and they came up like new.
Cheers,
AR
Hi Kaz, very nice to meet you at Silverstone yesterday and very interesting to see you "at work" it's very clear to see how well you know and how much you love these NSX's. I'll pm you about possibly checking my bambino for me, it's in pretty good order generally but some of the history is a bit hazy and some the wiring is pretty shabby and I'm not entirelly sure what they have added(although there is a charging dock in my front air intake) plus the usual Bose problem.
Thank you,
Stephen(orange shorts ;))
Hi, Seamus.Quote:
Originally Posted by slieve_croob
Thank you for showing your interest to my service.
Considering your location, I would recommend contacting another member ‘Sudesh’ here on NSXCB. He carried out many interesting services/modifications and we keep good communications each other.
For your NSX Health Check, Air con or Climate Control Unit and Bose Speaker Amplifier service, please send me an email by clicking on my alias name ‘kzukNA1’ and selecting the appropriate option. I’ll send you the PM with my email address as a backup later.
You have nice collection of cars especially the Honda Beat. I looked after my friend’s Beat for over 2 months and I really enjoyed driving it.
Looking forward to hearing from you in the near future.
Regards, Kaz
Quote:
Originally Posted by gumball
Hi, Stephen.
It was good to see you yesterday. I’m more than happy to go through your NSX so looking forward to hearing from you again in the near future.
Regards,
Kaz
Just to add my recommendation of Kaz's great work and expansive knowledge of these wonderful cars, (I hope you are busy, but not too busy).
Hi, Stephen.
Thank you for visiting my place the other day. I always enjoy talking to the NSX owners as well as watching the NSX DVD during lunch break. I'm glad that I managed to shorten the requried time by using the new lift.
We'll keep in touch to discuss the future service and I'll work on the Bose Amps when I can find some time.
Once again, thank you for using my service.
Regards,
Kaz
Hi, all.
After my Health Check Service, the owner will receive a prioritised recommended service list so that he/she can discuss about it with his/her mechanic or simply with me.
This time, the owner had a very good mechanic friend at his nearby garage so he ordered the parts through me and asked his friend to fit them.
Unfortunately, his mechanic was quite busy and thus, the owner came back to me to have them installed.
As the owner already had an appointment for that weekend, we agreed on the order of the services to be carried out so that we can utilise the limited time efficiently.
1. Tierod/Rack end
Attachment 6050 Attachment 6051
I stopped counting how many rack end that I replaced on the NSX for the last 15 years… Whether it is Right hand drive or Left hand one, the passenger side always starts to rattle first due to the geometry factor. Another common service items on our NSX…
2. Four wheel alignment
Attachment 6052
The owner had the alignment done about 2 years ago and as I replaced the tierod/rack end, I had to carry out the alignment service as well.
I normally recommend the alignment to be done once a year if you drive regularly but for this owner, it was not his everyday car.
However, I was quite surprised to see how far every alignment data were off from the specified figure even taking into consideration the replacement of the above parts. After several hours, the data came out beautifully and it was such a big difference in handling even for a short driving back to my place.
Later, when I met with the owner, he was really happy with the properly aligned NSX.
3. Coolant system
It is always best to carry out preventative maintenance or deal with the issue at the first sign. Otherwise, it will take extra time and cost you more.
Good example is my other service such as air con Climate Control Unit (CCU), brake calliper overhaul, brake master cyl, ABS and so on.
During the Health check, it was noticed that the header tank was really old and coolant colour was still green. Honda changed the spec of its coolant long time ago and it is now in blue colour. It is called as Honda Type 2 coolant. It can be left for about 10 years without replacing but I’m quite sure you’ll be draining the system before that for your water hoses or water pump services.
So, if your coolant is not blue, then your coolant could be very old or not from Honda.
Back to the original story… All the water hoses were tired and some of the hose cramps were completely rusted. So, it was decided to replace all hoses, cramps, header tank, thermostat, header tank cap and so on. For early model MT NSX, there are 23 hoses to be replaced. For AT, it’s even more due to the ATF cooler… I’ll be working on AT one later. Can’t wait for another long session with the water hoses…
Attachment 6053 Attachment 6054
In order to speed up the flushing process, I normally remove the thermostat first and put back just the cover to cycle the water inside the system. In order to avoid the old coolant to splash over the exhaust system, it is best to drain the engine block using some sort of pipe.
While removing the thermostat cover, I already knew that it is going to be a big job as there were some leakage and corrosion around the area.
Attachment 6059 Attachment 6055 Attachment 6056
I normally allow 6hrs for just replacing all the hoses but on this NSX, I spent many hours just cleaning the rust and debris on the pipes and etc. You won’t be able to see them as they are hidden under the connection point of the hoses.
Therefore, it is best to have your coolant system serviced based on the recommended interval even you don’t drive your NSX regularly.
Over the time, the coolant will loose its original performance including the rust inhibitor and will result in rusty pipes and so on.
Within the limited time, I cleaned the corroded area as much as possible.
Attachment 6057 Attachment 6058
The parts replaced at the engine room and the centre channel under the floor.
Attachment 6060 Attachment 6061
By this time, you’ve already lost your hand’s grip power so time to take a break.
And the most time consuming two hoses… The ones at the oil cooler…
Attachment 6062 Attachment 6063 Attachment 6064
Even I carried out this many times, I still spend about 1 hour just for these two hoses. For me, it is quicker to remove the oil cooler from its original location and rest it on a piece of wood to get maximum space to access these two hoses.
You’ll need to replace the figure of 8 O-ring, clean the special bolt holes and apply small amount of Honda bond when re-installing the Oil cooler.
The parts replaced at the front compartment under the bonnet.
Another time consuming hoses are the small ones just at the side of the blower fan unit.
Attachment 6065 Attachment 6066 Attachment 6067
After long hours, it is time for the vacuum test and vacuum fill the system. I normally leave the system under vacuum condition for 5min to check for any leakages.
Then, final bleed check and start the engine.
By the way, you must keep the water valve open through out the process so you need to set your air con climate control unit (CCU) to be at 32degC or simply, remove the linkage wire and push the water valve lever towards the cabin side. This is to flush the old coolant within the heater core and also to bleed the air trapped there. If you understand how the coolant flows through the system, you'll understand this.
On our NSX, unlike other ordinally cars, the hot coolant enters the radiator from the bottom side. The inlet/outlet pipes to the heater core are located before the radiator and since they are positioned quite high, you can easily trap some air there if you are not careful.
If everything is fine, then keep the 32degC setup and go out for a short drive with revving the engine occasionally to push out any possible remaining air bubbles inside the coolant system.
Let the engine to cool down and check for the coolant level.
I was hoping to install the new brake line as well as Type-R Clutch pedal and damper less clutch joint but ran out of time… So, these are for the future service.
Done.
Regards,
Kaz
I Kaz,
Can you check the PM regarding an estimmate for a clutch. :)
Cheers,
Ary
Hi, Ary.
Good to hear from you again.
PM replied and hope it will help...
Regards,
Kaz
Hi, all.
Through my 15 years of NSX ownership and being very close to it even before it was on the market in 1990, I managed to acquire enough data on NSX in many areas including the important maintenance work based on the climate and driving conditions in Japan.
After moving to UK and driving many NSX and also carrying out the NSX Health Check Service for NSXCB members and other owners, I would like to share my personal view on some of the critical service items.
I can’t cover everything here so I’ll just pick up some of them.
I hope this will help not just the NSXCB members but also the people who is considering the similar service as mine.
Please note that this is just my personal view and you may not agree with these or your environment/driving condition may differ so much that these may not be the case for your NSX.
Please take this into your consideration and I have no intention to criticise anyone or any parties at all. I hope no one will misunderstand the purpose of this post ....
1. Brake Calliper
Until several years ago, in Japan, we had to carry out the calliper overhaul (OH) every 2 – 3 years by law.
Since the rubber material has improved a lot, we are no longer forced to replace the boots, seals, cups and etc under the new law. However, it is still recommended by many reputable garages in Japan to have the calliper OH every 2 years in order to inspect the inside of the callipers and to prevent the rust from getting inside.
It seems that for UK NSX, the calliper OH is not carried out on a regular basis. In fact, I noticed that this is not just the case for our NSX but also for many other cars on the road.
I was lucky enough to drive many NSX based in UK and none of them were showing the same level of stopping power or the solid pedal feeling of the original spec.
One of the reason for this seems to be that the owner believes or being told that the OH is not required if the car was not driven regularly or if it is at low mileage.
Especially, among the owners with super low mileage NSX, the calliper has never been touched for nearly/over 10years.
This is very worrying as the piston(s) inside the calliper just sits at the same position for many months/years if the brake pedal or side brake were left without any movements. Unless your NSX is kept inside the 24Hr air-conditioned garage, the moisture in the air will eventually get into the calliper causing the rust slowly. It will damage your piston, cause seizing and in the worst case scenario, it will cause brake fluid leakage or entire calliper to be replaced.
Therefore, regardless of your annual mileage, it is essential to have your callipers serviced at regular interval. Needless to say, the brake fluid should be replaced every year for standard NSX regardless of the annual mileage and for those who take out their NSX on track, well, I don’t need to say anything as they are more experienced than me. For those who are interested, they are replacing after every track event or after a few events depending on the brake fluid used.
2. Brake Master Cylinder
For the same reason above, in the past, it was mandatory to OH the brake master cyl (MC) regularly in Japan.
In UK and US, the workshop manual only tells to replace the entire brake MC as an assembly and there are no overhaul procedures.
Eventually, we’ll struggle to source the parts in the long term future so personally, I think it is best to know how to refurbish the existing parts rather than just simply replacing them.
Because of the price of the parts and the fact that it should be replaced as an assembly, it seems that many owners are running their NSX with aged brake MC or even with tiny leakage without being noticed.
It is recommended to OH the brake MC at least every 3 years or at the time of calliper OH.
While I was in Japan, it was very rare to see any sign of leakage or rust at the base of brake MC on NSX which was caused by the old leakge.
In UK, most of the NSX that I saw during the Health Check Service or during certain events showed sign of old leakage.
I would strongly recommend to have your brake callipers and MC overhauled on a regular basis regardless of your annual mileage.
3. ABS
Prior to the introduction of one box ABS module on our NSX, all models were equipped with four solenoids, accumulator/pump under the bonnet with control box inside the cabin. This old system requires regular service in order to prevent the solenoids from sticking.
Unfortunately, if the solenoid was functioning properly as an electronics circuit, it won’t trigger the ABS/ALB yellow warning light on the dash even if it was sticking and not releasing any brake pressure when it should under wheel locking.
Because of this, many owners with old type ABS module are driving with partially failed ABS without even noticing it. This is quite common for both UK and Japan based NSX.
It is recommended to flush the system at least every 2 years and if you don’t drive your NSX regularly, then it is a good idea to activate the ABS a few times every time when you take out your NSX.
This will help in preventing the solenoids from sticking.
Please note that if you have old type ABS, the occasional squeaking noise from the front section is from the ABS pump and not from the solenoids. In order to activate the solenoids, you must trigger the ABS by locking the wheels under braking or lift the entire car and use special method.
4. Coolant system
In Japan, I have seen many NSX with burst coolant hose especially among the owners with aftermarket header/exhaust.
One of the three hoses under the header tank and the very short/small one at the Eng Oil cooler just above the oil filter element are the common failure parts.
As these hoses are quite difficult to see without removing other parts, quite often, the owner won’t be able to notice the first sign of the failure. The hose will expand partially like a bubble and then burst.
The OEM hoses have fibre material woven inside the rubber hose for reinforcement. It is not easy to inspect the state of each hose from outside so it is recommended to replace all of them (23 – 25 of them) at a certain interval. Some of the owners managed to survive without replacing them for more than 10 years but as a preventative measure, it is recommend as max 8 years interval by many garages in Japan.
In UK, it seems that most of the owners managed to keep the coolant hoses for more than 10 years. Seems like many owners are staying with OEM header/exhaust and the driving/environment condition is much better than Japan. Traffic jam in the hot humid summer will cause heat soak and lots of NSX in Japan are not kept in a nice roofed garage like the one in UK. Plain land is so expensive and precious in Japan due to lots of mountains. For me, the traffic jam on M25 in the morning rush hour is nothing compared to the one in Japan.
If the colour of your coolant is not blue, then you are either running the old spec or non Honda one. The blue Honda one is called Type-2 and it has the maintenance interval of 10years. As a preventative measure, it is best to replace the coolant hoses before this….
The header tank and the cap are regular maintenance items as well. If you can’t inspect the fluid level through the wall of header tank, your tank is getting old. Eventually, you’ll start to see small leakage around the fixing bolt at the left side or somewhere at the middle of the tank where the upper and lower tank parts are glued.
You may see small crack at the small tube just below the cap where the overflow tube is connected.
It is recommended to replace it regularly or replace it immediately at the first sign of the leakage.
There are several aftermarket tanks available on the market and they will probably last longer than the OEM one. However, I still use OEM one because I know the internal structure and the story behind the design and test process on how long it took to came up with this internal design for the best air separation.
I prefer replacing the water pump at the time of timing belt service regardless of the mileage and I’ll replace the thermostat every time when I replace the coolant or coolant hoses.
5. Drive shaft
Compared to other cars, it seems that our NSX requires more attention to the driveshaft maintenance. Once again, among the owners with aftermarket header/exhaust system, the right side driveshaft boot tends to break first.
Even if there was no damage to the boot, the grease inside the boot can start to leak causing lots of mess and eventually, damaging the internal parts. You will also notice the clicking noise at the parking speed once your grease lost its original performance.
The maintenance interval depends on driving conditions so there is no general distance/time based suggestions but I normally carry out the service whenever I started to hear the clicking noise. My NSX is everyday car and covered more than 120,000miles in 15 years. I don’t track my NSX and drive most of the time on A or B road and occasionally on the motorway. I don’t have aftermarket header/exhaust and based on these conditions, I normally OH the driveshaft around every 30,000 – 50,000miles.
6. Left Rear Hub/bearing
On some of the NSX based in UK, it seems that this parts starts to cause tiny rattle after some mileage. In Japan, there were some owners replaced this part in the past but mainly they were tracking their NSX or had non-OEM wide wheels/tyres and different chassis setup. Among the standard NSX owners, it is very rare to replace this.
Possibly it is because of the roundabout as I don’t remember having seen one in Japan….
I had to replace mine a while ago and already found the same issue on other owners...
7. Crank pulley
Although this is not in the workshop manual, it is recommended by many reputable garages to replace this at the time of every timing belt service.
I’m keeping one in stock as I’ll be doing my timing belt and possibly the clutch in the near future. I can’t comment on any aftermarket parts around this area as I don’t have any experience or data on the products and personally, for me, this is one of the ‘must’ item to use OEM part for my own protection.
I would like to carry on writing more but I think these are enough for the moment.
In order to support my view above, I will be posting some of the photos from my recent and ongoing services for the NSX owners. Once again, above is just my personal view and may not be the case for your NSX.
Thank you for your time.
Regards,
Kaz
I would like to share my thoughts and feedback for points 1-3 above under important maintenance items.
During my ownership my only critism of the NSX has been the brakes. During this time I have regularly changed the fluid, updated the discs, cooling ducts, hoses & pads. All of these have shown only marginal improvements and always felt a long way short of say my '04 S2k.
So before investing in any other 'upgrade' parts for the brakes I had long thought it best to ensure that the basics were in the best possible condition. Bear in mind that my NSX has a full and detailed main dealer history and only 56k miles in 11 yrs, 17k of these with myself.
So in the past couple of weeks and following the health check / roadtest of my NSX, I delivered my NSX to the care of Kaz for a full overhaul of the braking system.
In due course you may see photo's and details from Kaz that were taken during my overhaul. To both his and my amazement was what he found during the work. We had both expected this to be a fairly straightforward peice of work given the generally clean and well maintained condition of my NSX.
Last Friday I took the train on route to collect my NSX. Whilst comfortably on the Virgin train I was reading an old EVO and about my regular on road braking comparison, the 911 GT3 RS. I stopped reading and started thinking, even worrying about the work that had been done, the photo's I'd seen and would the time and skills invested by Kaz deliver good results.
After a discussion with Kaz about the work I set about my journey home.
At the request of Kaz, and as planned, I took the first part of my journey nice and steady to get used to the new 'feel' of the brakes. As I added the miles I realised I need not have worried whilst on the train. I can honestly say that in my 3 1/2 yrs of ownership I have never had such a good brake pedal and feedback from the brakes. This was so clearly a long overdue service requirement of my brakes.
On route home I decided to go off the motorway and take in some more challenging B roads. With renewed confidence and with the pedal now allowing me to control the bite of the brakes I had a truly enjoyable drive across country. As the miles passed I found myself leaving my braking later yet with the full confidence they would perform as one would expect from a car such as the NSX.
As I wrote above, I have a number of updates already. All of these were to help improve the brakes. I can honestly say that none of these changes made as much impact as the work recently completed.
Only now do I have brakes worthy of the NSX. I had been considering other changes to improve the brakes but for now feel that these are no longer required. Based on my own experience, if you are considering how to improve the braking efficiency of your NSX, I would strongly recommend you complete a full overhaul to ensure you too have your NSX's braking system working to its most efficeint levels.
I would end by stating that this brake overhaul is quite simply the most effective performance investment I have made and one I would encourage others to consider.
Thank you Kaz and I, as others have, am very happy to recommend your service to all at NSXCB.
Regards
Paul
This last post is making me feel very guilty, Kaz recommended a brake overhaul on my car but my budget is somewhat restricted at the moment.
I have the new discs and pads on order, and I'm just hoping that when I take the calipers off I find the seals are in good order.
Could be the age old problem with sliding calipers when the inside of the disc wears, it is usually due to sticking sliders
(the piston pushes against the inside of the disc but fails to put effective pressure on the outside).
Quote:
Originally Posted by kzukNA1
It has Kas, will try to get a few thoudand miles out of this one, then hope to book the car in with you.
Cheers,
Ary
Recently, I was working on one of the member’s NSX. Prior to this, the owner took my NSX Health check service and I drove this particular car. Straight away, I didn’t like the feeling of the brake.Quote:
Originally Posted by kzukNA1
It is a low mileage, well looked after and being serviced regularly at the reputable garage so I thought it just needs good bleeding and going to be an easy job. Wrong….
The Front calliper before the service. As you can see, it is very clean and even I was not expecting to see the problem inside…
Most of the pistons showed rust under the lip of dust boot but one of them was particularly bad and didn’t move smoothly. It had rust even at the seal area and thus, enough damage was done and had to be replaced.
Attachment 6101 Attachment 6102 Attachment 6103
This is quite common for NSX not driven regularly and if the calliper was not overhauled on a regular basis.
There are lots of know-how that are not on the workshop manual to minimise these rust getting inside the calliper and these can only be done at the time of overhaul. Therefore, regular service on the calliper is a ‘must’ item.
So, the Front calliper was inspected in detail and serviced using the overhaul kit with additional parts based on the past experience. The bleeder plug and cap were also replaced with the new ones.
Attachment 6104 Attachment 6105
The Rear calliper requires extra work as it has hand brake mechanism inside and in the piston as well.
Quite often, if the car was not used regularly or the hand brake cable was not removed for a while, the pin which secures the cable to the calliper will be severely rusted and thus, you’ll struggle to remove it.
Attachment 6109
And then, one of the piston didn’t rotate smoothly even using the special tool….
Finally, managed to disassemble the calliper and started the overhaul process.
Using special tools to service the hand brake mechanism.
Attachment 6108 Attachment 6107
Hand brake lever and parts used for overhaul.
Attachment 6106 Attachment 6110
Now the piston rotates very smoothly and we have a happy calliper.
Kaz,
Which are the special tools required to service the handbrake mechanism?
Do the offending parts just require a clean and re-grease?
Hi, NSXGB.
Although Honda states it as 'special tool', you can probably use deep socket to hold the adjuster down against the force of spring.
I just use the Honda special tools because I got them at special price while I was in Japan. Also, I don't want to scratch the internal bore of calliper housing.
You must obtain the long bent nose snap ring plier but you may already have something suitable if you work on your car. WIthout it, you'll spend long time to remove just one snap ring (5sec job) as straight type plier won't reach it or your plier will be hitting the folk of the calliper making it difficult to catch the snap ring. Time is precious for my service as I can only work on the NSX during the afternoon of my private time.
Any rubber parts have to be replaced with the new ones if you have disassembled the calliper.
There are two tiny rubber parts inside the handbrake adjuster so remember to replace them addition to the normal boots and seals.
If you use any chemical for inspection/cleaning rather than the brake fluid, the rubber parts will expand so you must replace them even if you didn't disassemble the handbrake mechanism.
This is why the workshop manual states to use only the brake fluid for the cleaning purpose.
The pistons can be re-used depending on the position of the rust/damage. You will learn it from the experience but if you see any damage to the piston wall below the dust boot groove, it's best to replace it as you don't want to take any gamble.
Regards,
Kaz
Below the brake fluid reservoir, there is a brake master cylinder (MC). It is connected to the brake vacuum booster system which is black colour metal with round shape object at the front bulkhead.Quote:
Originally Posted by kzukNA1
Quite often on many NSX, I saw sign of leakage or trace of old leakage at the base of MC, i.e., the rust mark caused by the brake fluid at the black metal cover of booster system. You can see the trace of leakage around the stud bolt on the left part of the photo.
Attachment 6116
For some reason, it is not serviced regularly in UK. In fact, the English version of workshop manual states to replace the entire MC assy rather than to overhaul it. Probably something to do with the local regulation and to avoid complex issues caused by the human error.
The entire assys costs about GBP575.00 inc.VAT + labour so probably this is one of the reasons why it was not treated as regular maintenance item…
As long as there is no scratch/damage to the internal bore of MC, you can overhaul it and save a lot even including the labour charge.
As it is part of the brake system, I don’t think it is a good idea to wait until it starts to leak and then carry out the service.
The procedure is quite simple as it is similar to other cars. After disassembling the MC, clean it and inspect it carefully.
Then, use the overhaul kits to re-assemble.
Although I have never come across to the NSX that required the adjustment of the pushrod clearance at the brake booster, I always check it using the special tool as I don’t know the full service history of each NSX.
Attachment 6112 Attachment 6113 Attachment 6114
This is very important as you are either having too much play before the brake pressure rises or continuously applying small brake pressure which will be very dangerous.
Once everything is checked, the nice shiny overhauled MC is back in place.
Attachment 6115
Although it is not necessary, it may make your life easier if you bench bleed the MC prior to fitting it back on your NSX. If you consider the hydraulic line of entire brake system, you are going to take long hours to bleed the system without bench bleeding the MC first. This is the same even you use gravity bleed or other methods.
Attachment 5789 Attachment 5790
Attachment 6134Quote:
Originally Posted by kzukNA1
Kaz, are these connectors a Honda part or standard electrical part? I need a pair for the third brake light so that it can be wired properly....I'm presuming they will be the same ad will clip into the plug housing?
If it's a Honda part, do you have the part number please?
Hi Kaz, interesting to see the wear/rust on Paul's caliper pistons. I was going to undertake a rebuild of my calipers over the winter and suspect that I'll find similar damage to the pistons on my car.
A couple of questions if I may...
What does the caliper overhaul kit you mention contain? Do you have a part number to hand?
What other parts should I order?
How many pistons did you replace?
How much, roughly, are they each?
Thanks
Mark
What are the part no. for this?
You can buy the calliper seal kit from Honda. The seal kits are NO:1 in both pics.
But after that you can basically buy all the other bits too, pistons, bolts, retainers and so on.
Front callipers break down
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j7...SL00_008_4.png
Rear Callipers
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j7...SL00_008_2.png
Thanks Sudesh. Mine's a 3.2 so I'll need the specific p/n's for the kits etc.
I'll do the fronts first so, might need a 12 & 15 (piston) for each side. Maybe new bolts as the calipers have been on and off a few times. The slider pins are good 'cos I checked and lubed them up at the last pad change (for the Silverstone track evening) just a month or so a go.
I must get myself one of these parts CD's :)
Actually there's probably no point in getting the part numbers as the muppets at UK Honda dealer parts desks seem to be incapable of suppling anything without a chassis number.
Cheers
Mark
Hi Mark,Quote:
Originally Posted by markc
No problem at all. The parts pic I used will vary with the numbers, I used it just to indicate the calliper build. I have JDM parts system, UK and US. Some dealers can be picky with the chassis number issue, but with the correct part numbers I have never had a problem going to the dealer. Also alot of the part numbers on the parts CD systems have been superseded, so its always worth checking with the dealer. There will also be a difference in NA1 and NA2 builds.
Personally Mark, if doing a full rebuild I would replace everything, pistons, bolts, seal, retainers, and so forth.
Hi, NSXGB.Quote:
Originally Posted by NSXGB
This terminal (pin) is from the OEM parts supplier 'Sumitomo Electric Industries Ltd'. They supply lots of looms, connectors, etc for many production manufactures including Honda.
The standard one is not Gold plated and I don't think you can get hold of it as it is not used for the production cars. It was used for the F1.
I don't know whether you can get hold of the standard ones in UK or not as I always get them from Japan. I still have lots of good contacts.
Not sure what the '3rd brake light' is, but if you are refering to the LED brake light on the rear wing, then you need different connector/pin type from the one in my photo.
You need the 090 WPC (Water Proof Connector) type one and the pin is also special to accomodate the sealing grommet at the end of the terminal. You'll also require special crimping tool to crimp the wire and the grommet to the terminal (pin) properly.
UK spec NSX is already pre-wired up to the left rear of the engine room for the LED brake light so if you want to buy the OEM cables for this, you'll need additional two cables.
If you want alternative solution, please send me an email as I may be able to make the cable for you but I need to check the stock of my parts first.
Regards,
Kaz
Hi, Mark.Quote:
Originally Posted by markc
If you look at the 4th photo of the post #67, you'll see the part no and the parts included in the Front OH kit for later spec Front Calliper.
It's 01463-SL0-J01.
You need two of these for the Front.
For those who are interested, please note that the later models has different Front calliper piston size compared to the earlier ones and thus, requries differnt OH kit.
Some of the NA1 (3.0L) engine models were also equipped with this later spec callipers so please be carefiul if you are trying to distinguish the brake calliper spec by the engine size.
Also, if it is a used car, your previous owner may have upgraded the calliper to the later spec. It is quite common and for example, my NSX is 94 model but I'm running the 02 Type-R callipers.
You don't need to replace the pistons and other parts such as the bolt unless they are damaged. You can only judge it by opening the calliper.
For your referece, followings are some of the prices in UK.
HUK price for LATER spec Front calliper
Front OH kit: 80.89 inc.VAT x 2 = 161.78
Front Piston 34mm: 38.16 inc.VAT x 2 = 76.32
Front Piston 40mm: 63.94 inc.VAT x 2 = 127.88
Addition to these, I normally replace the following for the front calliper service. Parts no and image included in the same photo of post #67.
Bleeder screw: 4.67 inc.VAT x 2 = 9.34
Cap, bleeder screw: 2.70 inc. VAT x 2 = 5.40
So, if you go down the route of HUK, you'll be looking at at least 380.00 just for some of the Front Calliper Parts...
As I always service my calliper every 2 -3 years, I don't want to pay this figure so I always order them from Japan or US.
Hope this will help.
Regards,
Kaz
Recently, I was working on another NSX for Brake Calliper OH, Master Cyl OH, Driveshaft service and so on.
The owner bought the NSX as a used car and there were several previous owners in the past.
Initially, the owner brought the car for my Health check and there were many items to be serviced so we discussed the plan based on the available time and the budget.
1. Brake Calliper
The owner had the new brake pads installed at a certain garage and also he was under the impression that the callipers were serviced in the past by the previous owners.
However, at the time of my NSX Health Check Service, I drove this car and the brake performance was nowhere near to the original spec. It was also causing lots of judder when the brake temperature was high. The Brake Master Cyl looked terrible but I’ll touch on this later.
It was agreed to carry out the brake calliper and master cyl OH, replace the brake disks, replace the brake hoses and paint the callipers in matt black.
As soon as I started the service, I found the 1st issue.
Attachment 6138
One of the boot was damaged when someone carried out the calliper OH or when re-installing the callipers after the new pads were installed. It was not just one side but on both R & L Front Callipers so it was a human error. Also, found that the orientation of the slider pins was wrong, the torque for the rear calliper bracket was too low which was really dangerous and so many other issues.
I’m glad we carried out this OH service as the owner was planning to take this NSX on Nurburgring in near future.
All of the pistons looked very healthy as they were replaced recently but not sure whether it was serviced by someone who knows the specific knowhow for the NSX or not after finding so many issues.
Attachment 6139
It’s a standard calliper similar to other production cars but requires some knowhow.
The Front and Rear Calliper OH parts. The new Front Disk by Dixcel. Thanks to Andy at Vtecdirect. We placed the order long time ago while he was offering special deal on all products as well as the NSXCB member's deal.
Attachment 6140 Attachment 6141 Attachment 6142