CR-Z sampled in anger

[markc]

I had a chance to test the Honda CR-Z on closed roads earlier this week courtesy of my local Honda dearer (Trident - Weybridge & Ottershaw).

They had 3 examples, 2 black one pearl white, in different trim specs to try around the test track at Chobham. See attached pics.

First impressions are good, it looks "rakish" from any front view while the rear view is rather more challenging with its high chopped off tail. Personally I felt the black paintwork rather hid the detail and the pearl white one worked better.

Inside the dashboard is similar to the current Civic with backlit 3D effect dials. The seat trim is either a very attractive and surprisingly grippy cloth or leather. I actually preferred the former.

To start the car you have to turn the key, then push the "Start" button S2000 style. It's a bit pseudo sporty really and not helped by the fact that the steering wheel completely hides the Start button from the drivers view.

On the move it's rather nice. Sprightly if not fast with a light clutch, slick gear change and firm but comfortable ride. There are 3 modes Eco, Normal and Sport. By default it starts in Normal but you can select any mode at anytime. Pulling away you never know it was a hybrid of any type and on a test track like this where you tend to drive quickly it would make little or no differance anyway. Around the fast (90+ mph) sweeping turns of Chobham it felt planted and I saw 118mph at the end of the main straight. Brakes felt good if a little over assisted as is the way of most modern cars.

Although the CR-Z is wears it hybrid badges very obviously, it doesn't try obviously to be a hybrid (if you get my drift). There is a battery capacity gauge but it's subtly placed and normally sized, none of the silly Prius style "I'M A HYBRID" energy flow display nonsense.

If this is the future then it's not soo bad. At £24K it's bit expensive for the amount of car and performance on offer but supply will be restricted, Trident are only getting 13 to sell this year, so residuals should be strong and running costs low. A bigger more powerful hybrid sport model could work quite well but my one would look and go more like the Porsche 918 :)

Thanks go to Trident for allowing me to try Honda's new baby.

I've attached a few pics including one with the CR-Z parked alongside a previous generation Honda sports hero :)

Cheers

Mark

[gumball]

Looks nice, but why don't Honda want you to be able to see whats behind you anymore?
They all have dreadfull rear visibilty for some reason. :(

[nakamichi]

I had a look at one in the Honda showroom yesterday.Looks alright but there is no way I would pay 24k for it.

[Lankstarr]

I was impressed having sat in it - it would appeal if I was a foot shorter! Dont bother trying it if you're 6ft + (no I'm not 7ft).

Looked top quality though and awesome in pearlescent white.:D

[Dragonlady]

We had a look around one in our local Honda dealer. I like the interior and dash, the view out the back isn't so bad. It has a retro feel to the body shape, harks back to the original CRX.

Ian

[NoelWatson]

I had a chance to test the Honda CR-Z on closed roads earlier this week courtesy of my local Honda dearer (Trident - Weybridge & Ottershaw).



I think I got a leaflet for this but didn't respond. Sounded fun.

[dan the man]

Black A pillars....... Hmmm. How did they look in the flesh?

[markc]

Black A pillars....... Hmmm. How did they look in the flesh?

Yeah a bit of a styling gimmick, possibly an hommage to the original NSX black roof?

They look better than the darkened rear side windows which I felt helped to pinch in the whole rear of the car and unbalance the side view.

I just don't get this "privacy glass" thing IMHO it looks ugly and it's sun/UV shielding is highly dubious as modern car glass does this anyway. Did you know that the CR-Z's rear seats are unusable by actual people and are primarily there to help bring down the insurance rating? I kid you not, insurance companies like 2+2's better than strict 2 seaters! So absolutely no reason for darkened glass other than looks, in which it fails miserably.

Cheers

Mark

[A.S. Motorsport]

I've given the CRZ a good look at my look Dealership, i like it a lot just like you said interior is nice seating is great looks funky.

only thing it's waiting for is a K20 swap.

[Nick Graves]

Black A pillars....... Hmmm. How did they look in the flesh?

Imagine a Ford Transit Coupe. That's the CR-Z in white.

It's all very nice & everything. Except I think modern cars suck and we'll probably stick with the old Civic VTi (or a DC2!) since they are way more fun.

[simonprelude]

As a 2 seater it looks fun, as a 2+2 it's useless as we proved the other day putting a baby seat in one at our local dealership.

With the passenger seat touching the baby seat, you had 2 inches between the passenger seat and the dash :(

The mk2 CRX was more practical, quicker, and almost as economical.

[NSX 2000]

As a 2 seater it looks fun, as a 2+2 it's useless as we proved the other day putting a baby seat in one at our local dealership.

With the passenger seat touching the baby seat, you had 2 inches between the passenger seat and the dash :(

The mk2 CRX was more practical, quicker, and almost as economical.

But not as safe in a crash.

The Euro NCAP has a lot to answer for! (IMO)

[havoc]

So what HAVE they done with all the space it should have inside, then?!?

Because so far we're coming up with:-
- Overpriced
- Not that quick
- Questionable rear-viz
- Impractical

...or in other words all of the traits of a poverty-spec SLK without the looks, the badge or the folding roof.

9/10 for the idea
3/10 for the execution

[markc]

As a 2 seater it looks fun, as a 2+2 it's useless as we proved the other day putting a baby seat in one at our local dealership.

As I said the rear "seats" are genuinely only there to lower the insurance premium.


The Euro NCAP has a lot to answer for! (IMO)

From an active safety aspect it's all good i.e. if you have a crash you're MUCH better protected, but from a passive safety one it's all bad i.e. the increased weight and reduced visibility from huge pillars means you're more likely to have that crash.


... so far we're coming up with:-
- Overpriced
- Not that quick
- Questionable rear-viz
- Impractical


Ahh but it's a hybrid which, whether we like it or not, is the immediate future of most cars including sports models.

Overpriced - What are it hybrid competitors?
Not that quick - It's roughly as quick as similar sized small coupes.
Questionable Rear viz - Indeed but a lot of modern cars are surprisingly hard to see out of.
Impractical -Again, much like most small coupes, although our old Ford Puma was quite spacious.

We'll have to see what Honda's competitors come up with in response before giving it too harder time.

Cheers

Mark

[Sudesh]

Havent seen one of these yet; is it like a replacement for the early 90's CRX?

[havoc]

Overpriced - What are it hybrid competitors?
Not that quick - It's roughly as quick as similar sized small coupes.
Questionable Rear viz - Indeed but a lot of modern cars are surprisingly hard to see out of.
Impractical -Again, much like most small coupes, although our old Ford Puma was quite spacious.

Scirocco TDi, off the top of my head. Not a hybrid but cheaper, quicker, more practical and I suspect about as economical.

MeganeSport 175dCi will probably be considered as an alternative too - same applies as for the Scirocco.

[NSX 2000]

Scirocco TDi, off the top of my head. Not a hybrid but cheaper, quicker, more practical and I suspect about as economical.

MeganeSport 175dCi will probably be considered as an alternative too - same applies as for the Scirocco.

They might be as or even more economical than the CR-Z, but are they as green, No.

[NoelWatson]

They might be as or even more economical than the CR-Z, but are they as green, No.

Not sure what you mean by that?

[NSX 2000]

Not sure what you mean by that?

The modern day car with just an internal combustion engine is only about 40% efficient, if you add an electric motor such as the CR-Z or Priuas you can push that up to about 60% or more, as you use what would be normally wasted energy to recharge the electric motor.

Plus Diesels although give better MPG, what comes out the exhaust (that black smoke) is a lot worse for the environment, hence in Japan and Switzerland why the tax system for cars is biased to the petrol engine.

[NoelWatson]

The modern day car with just an internal combustion engine is only about 40% efficient, if you add an electric motor such as the CR-Z or Priuas you can push that up to about 60% or more, as you use what would be normally wasted energy to recharge the electric motor.

Plus Diesels although give better MPG, what comes out the exhaust (that black smoke) is a lot worse for the environment, hence in Japan and Switzerland why the tax system for cars is biased to the petrol engine.

"if you add an electric motor such as the CR-Z or Priuas you can push that up to about 60% or more, as you use what would be normally wasted energy to recharge the electric motor."

Would be very very surprised if this were the case - Pruis is 89g, CR-Z is 117bhp (and I'm sure they can cheat on the test by starting with fully charged battery), whereas something like a 316d is 118g. Unless car spends a lot of time in the city, I see very little point in real world applications

[NSX 2000]

Would be very very surprised if this were the case - Pruis is 89g, CR-Z is 117bhp (and I'm sure they can cheat on the test by starting with fully charged battery), whereas something like a 316d is 118g. Unless car spends a lot of time in the city, I see very little point in real world applications

This is where the calculations for CO2 are flawed, they are biased towards a constant speed of about 60mph (100Kph) and this is where a diesel is at its most effeciant, the Prius, CR-Z etc are best for short and city (start/stop) driving.

Take my friends mother who did 17K miles in her S2000 in ten years or his aunt who did under 4K miles in ten years in her micra, in both cases the CR-Z would have been perfect.

[NoelWatson]

This is where the calculations for CO2 are flawed,

Indeed they are

http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/information/fuel-consumption-testing-scheme.asp

"
Urban cycle
The urban test cycle is carried out in a laboratory at an ambient temperature of 20°C to 30°C on a rolling road from a cold start where the engine has not run for several hours. The cycle consists of a series of accelerations, steady speeds, decelerations and idling. Maximum speed is 31 mph (50 km/h), average speed 12 mph (19 km/h) and the distance covered is 2.5 miles (4 km). The cycle is shown as Part One in the diagram below.
Extra-urban cycle
This cycle is conducted immediately following the urban cycle and consists of roughly half steady-speed driving and the remainder accelerations, decelerations, and some idling. Maximum speed is 75 mph (120 km/h), average speed is 39 mph (63 km/h) and the distance covered is 4.3 miles (7 km). The cycle is shown as Part Two in the diagram below."

The cycle should be done with the hybrid at typical charge, say 50%

[havoc]

CO2 tests favour hybrids massively (urban and combined cycles mostly so), and even more so favour auto-boxes, which are permitted to self-shift, as opposed to manuals which are forced to change at a set-% of max-rpm (which therefore favours engines with good low-down torque - turbos and diesels, and esp. turbo-diesels).

As for hybrids being more 'green' - only:-
(a) where they're plug-in hybrids; AND
(b) where a significant proportion of the mains electricity is generated from 'green' sources (renewables and nuclear).

(IMHO BMW's efficient dynamics is as good a solution, if not slightly better for the UK)

So hybrids in this country, at the moment, are a bloody-great white elephand, once you factor in the additional weight, additional production costs, the mining/refining of the exotic battery materials, and then the fact that the electricity is still generated from fossil fuels. Diesels aren't great (esp. smoky 2nd-hand ones), but modern DPF engines aren't THAT bad (says the diesel hater).



Final point - China are still increasing emissions faster than any other developed country. So ANYTHING drivers in the UK do to reduce their emissions is so much pissing into the ocean...and all of this is therefore domestic politics only and not of any notable environmental benefit - our governments would be FAR better off subsidising the production of advanced nuclear power stations in China if they genuinely wanted to reduce global CO2 emissions.

[NSX 2000]

Final point - China are still building 1 or 2 NEW coal-fired power stations EVERY week .

This must be the most over hyped load of F**KING B*****S stat ever :no:

This stat has been going around since about 2000

Not having a go at you havoc just this stupid stat!

[havoc]

This must be the most over hyped load of F**KING B*****S stat ever :no:

This stat has been going around since about 2000

Not having a go at you havoc just this stupid stat!


Fair point - I've taken it as read for a while now, apologies.

I did just check, and for 2009 (recession year), the guardian article yesterday showed Chinese growth still at 9% (vs declines for Western nations):-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jul/01/emissions-recession


Taking the latest Wiki figures for CO2 emissions (where China = 11x the UK), and that 9% growth equals 1 year's UK emissions (not the 4 from my post above). "China has doubled it's emissions in 9 years" does suggest that is a long-term growth-rate as well...

[lotusolly]

Took a trip from Bexhill in East Sussex to Oxford and back in my 88 CRX a couple of months ago and decided to check what the fuel consumption was for the journey.
I was in a hurry to get back so I wasn't driving economically. It was mainly motorway driving, which on the way there was at speeds I can't say on here but would summarise as travelling with the higher speed traffic! Return journey was very stop start due to rush hour traffic and tuning wise the car is standard.

Average consumption for the journey was 44mpg

As with the CRZ the rear seat is not a desired place to be but folded down, provides a large flat boot leaving a very practicle 2 seater. I can fit a mountain bike in the boot and shut the tailgate with doing no more than removing the bike front wheel.

Economical and still much fun to drive.

Not seen anything that I feel provides a better package in this sector since being built 22 years ago!

If only I could stop it rusting!!!!!!

Olly

[JQD84983]

Taking the latest Wiki figures for CO2 emissions (where China = 11x the UK), and that 9% growth equals 1 year's UK emissions (not the 4 from my post above). "China has doubled it's emissions in 9 years" does suggest that is a long-term growth-rate as well...

It is such a big place that clearly as they continue to develop these numbers will increase. But the cat is out of the bag and they wont go back to their position of 15 years ago. And why should they?

In some ways the CR-Z is a marketing pitch but I applaud it in as much as the world has changed and Honda are at least trying to provide something a little different. Though if they offered say a powerful diesel as well like the Scirocco we could make our choice, as for me a good efficient Diesel is better than a hybrid.

[A.S. Motorsport]

It is such a big place that clearly as they continue to develop these numbers will increase. But the cat is out of the bag and they wont go back to their position of 15 years ago. And why should they?

In some ways the CR-Z is a marketing pitch but I applaud it in as much as the world has changed and Honda are at least trying to provide something a little different. Though if they offered say a powerful diesel as well like the Scirocco we could make our choice, as for me a good efficient Diesel is better than a hybrid.
considering a diesel sports car? your making a joke aren't you?

[markc]

considering a diesel sports car? your making a joke aren't you?

I'm with you there Adnan, crappy throttle response, limited rev range and rubbish soundtrack do not a sports car make. No amount of torques and sheer pace can make up for that.

Correction on the CR-Z pricing, a perfectly nicely spec'd car can be had for £20.5K

Cheers

Mark