Brake pad / pipe advice requested

[Senninha]

HI,

Over the winter I shall be changing out the standard discs for NSX-R grooved discs (thanx Dirk). At the same time I will be renewing the pads (obviously) and replacing the pipes with braided.

Can anyone offer advise on the following please?

1. Pad types for fast road use that wont squeal annoyingly
2. Where to buy braided hoses from and any experiences
3. Is there any additional benefit in changing brake fluid type

Thanx in advance

[simonprelude]

When I changed mine I used the NSX-R pads and goodridge hoses all bought from Detlef at Procar. I don't think he has anymore though.

Yes I would change fluid as well, unless you knew it has been changed recently.
Motul RF is my preference, available from Oilman :)

[duncan]

Demon Tweeks supplied my Goodridge Hoses, about £50 + P&P +VAT, two years ago.
Check that the front hoses have two floating brackets on each of them.

[blue5]

If Goodgrige do a set get them from rally design, i just bought a set for my elise and another set for a tvr and the cost was only 30 plus vat for each set saving about 20 on the DT price per set.

Dont change the fluid type ie from dot 4 to the silicon dot 5, if you do you will loose pedal feel ie it will become soft. I speak from experience when i changed my tr race car to dot 5 and had considerably more pedal travel when hot even thought it did not affect the braking. When i switched back which then involved changing seals the firm pedal returned. I have since done the dot 5 back to 4 for several owners.

If you do track days then i advise starting with fresh dot 4 fluid. When driven hard fluid, which has been in the system for a few years (like in most of our cars), will boil or heat up more easily giving a feeling of no pedal!

I buy fluid in 5 litre bottles from a local wholesaler as it is so cheap and actually changing/ flushing the fluid through is so easy i can do it often.

Regarding pads, you could try Hawke HP Plus, i had intended to fit some to my nsx after the success when used with a caterham (obviously very light ) and my friends much heavier TVR 350 wedge. On the latter the improvement was startling, the pads do not fade they work from cold as a road pad and there is less dust than from the standard mintex pads he was using.

Hope this helps

[sportyking]

I changed the pads/hoses/fluid on Y1 in March

I sourced the pads and hoses from Dali, and on Marks reccommendation I opted for a set of "project mu" pads. These are a Japanese make. I went for track/race spec pads in preparation for the ring, with the intention of changing back afterwards but they were just as good as standard on the road and were consequently left in. They never squealed. There are different specs to choose from. The braided hoses were well bling with matching blue sleeving and excellent quality at a very low price. I managed to get them shipped to a relative on holiday in the States but of course the international shipping has to be allowed for. I used ATE Blue fluid which is very high quality but around £18 a litre if memory serves me right. I completely changed the fluid in the braking system but am led to believe the ABS part is separate and it did not get changed.

The ATE was available from Hispec in Dartford but can be ordered from many places.

I cannot say there was any transformation as I never put the brakes under any continued assault prior to the change but it did give me more confidence to drive the car on the following ring trip and made the pedal feel markedly stiffer.

If you have any interest in the pads Ian L (whyone) has the box with the original pads in it, along with the car !!

[Senninha]

Thanx to all for your feedback, I shall be going with the following

NSX-R grooved OEM discs - Dirk
Project MU pads -Dali
Braided hoses - Dali

Blue5 thanx for the advice ref Dot 4 or 5. As I shall stay with 4, is there anything wrong with renewing the OEM fluid? Mark suggested and ATE fluid?

I've also opted to update the air deflectors so these, pads and hoses will be arriving from Mark in the next few days.

Given the current $$ exchange rate all the parts from Mark have equalled less then just buying OEM pads here :D

regards

Paul

[Senninha]

Does anyone know where I can buy Satin Black caliper paint please?

I've tried those companies mentioned above but without success. Gloss black is readily available but IMO doesn't look that nice on the NSX caliper. For the same reason I'm opting not to go for red or yellow.

Any help appreciated as I hope to be completing the work over the coming weeks ....... or when I can get some paint!!

regards

[sportyking]

Re Dot 5:

It should never be used in dot 4 systems as it can destroy the seals and give big problems. A large number of manufacturers (Honda included) go to the trouble of putting this in print in the handbooks. I think weird companies like Citroen use it.

Dot 5.1 however is not silicone and formulated to be suitable in Dot 4 systems if my memory serves me right?

[AR]

Does anyone know where I can buy Satin Black caliper paint please?

I've tried those companies mentioned above but without success. Gloss black is readily available but IMO doesn't look that nice on the NSX caliper. For the same reason I'm opting not to go for red or yellow.

Any help appreciated as I hope to be completing the work over the coming weeks ....... or when I can get some paint!!

regards

Paul how about powder coating? Would that not be longer lasting?

Cheers,

AR

[britlude]

satin black paint... just use black exhaust paint, engine paint, 2-pack paint, whatever! if the caliper gets THAT hot it affects the paint, you have far bigger problems to worry about!

powder coating would be more trouble than it's worth!

[Senninha]

Paul how about powder coating? Would that not be longer lasting? Cheers, AR

Thought about Powder Coating but was advised against it. I've now managed to source some satin black (good old ebay!) so once I've got the NSX up in the air I will be having a go.

If all goes well I'll post a few pics.

Thanx for all the help and advice guys.

Regards

Paul

[Senninha]

Thanx to all for your feedback, I shall be going with the following

NSX-R grooved OEM discs - Dirk
Project MU pads -Dali
Braided hoses - Dali


Over the last couple of weekends I have managed to complete most of the refresh work for the brakes.

Whilst doing this I took the opportunity to clean all the suspension parts as it seemed a shame to leave them covered in 8 years worth of road grime!

Over and above the items listed, I have also installed the CF brake ducts, courtesy of Dali. The difference in size over OEM is clearly seen in one of the following photo's.

This all started following my upgrade to the 02 rims. Lovely as the rims are, your eye was drawn to the rusty looking old caliper. You will see below that this is no longer the case. The calipers are now finished in Satin black, as per the NSX-R, together with red Project Mu's - thanx to Ritchie and others for the endorsements of the MU's; first impressions are very good.

I have only managed to clock around 100 or so miles so they are still being bedded in, however, the initial bite and feel is noticeable improved. I'm now looking forward to the next service when I shall have the fluids changed and the braided hoses installed.

Thanx again to all for your help/advice

Regards, Paul

[Senninha]

Bright suspension and look at the difference in the brake ducts, new ones in CF of course :)

[Senninha]

Reinstalled and refurbished with an NSX-R look from the satin black calipers, OEM Type R groved discs and painted Mu's ....now you see the beauty of the wheels without the distraction of the tired brakes behind.

All in all, a pleasing exercise.

[Minch]

That looks really tidy Paul. I like it!

[NSXGB]

Looks nice and clean Paul, did you do it by hand or did you use degreaser and a pressure washer?

Another question, do the CF brake ducts still work well if you don't remove the splash guards....apart from looking good!

[Senninha]

Looks nice and clean Paul, did you do it by hand or did you use degreaser and a pressure washer?

Another question, do the CF brake ducts still work well if you don't remove the splash guards....apart from looking good!

The initial cleaning was a good soaking in Wonder Wheels alloy wheel cleaner. This was then repeated and worked into the structures with a soft brush. It was all washed down thanx to the Karcher.

I then used some solvol metal polish to clean and brighten all the alloys parts before sealing with ACF50 - the bikers amongst us will know this works wonders for keeping the exposed frame elements healthy during winter riding.

As to whether the CF ducts work well/better I honestly dont know yet - I may be able to update once everything is bedded in. IF the OEM plastic ones actually do anything then I would hope its safe to say these will do more simply based on the increased surface area.

I know that most of this effort will not generally be seen, but I'm pleased thats its done and Thanx for the positive feedback.

regards, Paul

[NSXGB]

Will be interested to see how you get on with the Project Mu pads. I like the sound of them.

[Senninha]

Will be interested to see how you get on with the Project Mu pads. I like the sound of them.
Hi Simon,

Well I've put about a 1000 miles on the new brakes and I am very pleased. The combo of grooved discs and Mu pads give much more feel. I'm able to brake harder and later with confidence and the whole set up with the F1's aswell has made a measurable difference. All this with the added benefit of virtually no dust :D

I should be installing the braided hoses and new fluid within a month so will update again whne all is complete.

regards, Paul

[NSX 2000]

Paul, can I ask how much this has cost so far and how much it will have all cost when you change the fluid and hoses?

Thanks in advance
Paul.

PS I'm guessing no labour charge as you seem to do all this sought of thing yourself.

[AR]

Great result Paul, I just became aware of this thread.

Cheers,

AR

[Senninha]

I'm guessing no labour charge as you seem to do all this sought of thing yourself.
I've done this for a couple of reasons. Whilst I've done 5k miles, its not a daily driver so having off road for a while wasn't a problem (especially over a salty winter). I used to do a fair amount of maintenance so reasonably confident to have a go and finally, Norton's wanted over £400 to swap everything over which was fine BUT, I would of stripped it again to clean and refurb the calipers so seemed a waste of money.

For me, its also very satisfying to have completed the work myself as I know there's been no corner cutting, I've had chance to carefully check over the car and applied some chassis protection whilst the car was in the air.

The braided hoses and fluid will be done at the new KevSpeed facilities in the next few weeks so will incurr some labour charge for this element.

Costs to date (without digging out receipts)
NSX-R discs £600 from Dirk in Germany - he's in UK on Monday and can bring you a set over if you can pick up from Docklands (or I can collect for you?)
Mu Pads / CF deflectors / braided hoses £210
High temperature paint £10 on fleabay

Plus fluid and a bit of misc materials (like a brand new set of shims I'm not using if you're interested) Total < £900

HTH, regards Paul

[NSX 2000]

NSX-R discs £600 from Dirk in Germany - he's in UK on Monday and can bring you a set over if you can pick up from Docklands (or I can collect for you?)
Mu Pads / CF deflectors / braided hoses £210


Paul, is the above for the front wheels only?

Paul.

[Senninha]

4 x discs / pads all round / hoses all round / deflectors for front only

[NSX 2000]

Paul, do these weigh less than the orignal brake set up.
Paul.

[Senninha]

Paul, do these weigh less than the orignal brake set up.
Paul.I did have details on the weight saving but do you think I can find it now? Check with Dirk as he may know. I'm seeing him next week for some parts so could pick up for you if you order.

regards, Paul

[NSX 2000]

Paul, You did not change the calipers. Is this because on our NA 2 cars they are the same as the calipers on an NA 2 NSX-R anyway?
Regards Paul

[Senninha]

Paul, You did not change the calipers. Is this because on our NA 2 cars they are the same as the calipers on an NA 2 NSX-R anyway?
Regards Paul
The R calipers have larger pistons, 6mm I think, but otherwise are the same except for color, which is why I chose the satin black finish for mine to replicate the appearance. The gold finish is for the standard 3.2 caliper. I dont know, but the larger piston may actually make the caliper heavier?
The other change for the R was a recalibrated ABS system to improve pedal feel and overall performance, biased towards track use rather than the road IMO.

regards, Paul

[NSX 2000]

Paul, I've bought the rotors from Dirk and I will be collecting them on Monday :-) . You now need till me where I need to get the Mu Pads / CF deflectors / braided hoses from.
Many thanks
Paul.

[Senninha]

Hi Paul,

May be bump inot you when you're collecting your parts on MOnday.

Mu's / hoses / deflectors where from Dali.

regards, Paul

[NSXGB]

How many going on Monday? Dirk is going to have to bring a bigger van!

[NSXGB]

Was advised against Project Mu pads for road use by SOS, they didn't elaborate more than that.

How are you getting on with them Paul?







Paul, I've bought the rotors from Dirk and I will be collecting them on Monday :-) . You now need till me where I need to get the Mu Pads / CF deflectors / braided hoses from.
Many thanks
Paul.

[reg]

Paul, I've bought the rotors from Dirk and I will be collecting them on Monday :-) . You now need till me where I need to get the Mu Pads / CF deflectors / braided hoses from.
Many thanks
Paul.

Was in the same situation a few weeks back.

In the end I went to SOS and ordered the HP+ pads and St/Stl lines. They also have the Ritmo defelctors (which Dali made the mould from). If I could borrow a set of defelctors I could get a few sets made in carbon or fibreglass. Otherwise I will proceed with plan 'a' and make my own along with some replacement spashguards in carbon with a decent air inlet.

Oh and the HP+'s at SOS will be there this week if you do wanted some.

HTH.

Reg.

[Senninha]

Was advised against Project Mu pads for road use by SOS, they didn't elaborate more than that. may be simply that they dont stock them, although, IIRC they supply the discs :confused:


How are you getting on with them Paul? As per post #19 above, still very pleased

regards, Paul

[NSXGB]

may be simply that they dont stock them, although, IIRC they supply the discs :confused:

As per post #19 above, still very pleased

regards, Paul


Noo, they have the pads and can get hold of just about anything it seems...

They advised Hawk or Carbotech, but I went for OEM (which they supplied), playing it safe...

[NSX 2000]

How many going on Monday? Dirk is going to have to bring a bigger van!

I've been told to meet him at 9pm tonight (at his hotel), not sure yet if I will be going in the NSX yet, but if I do happy to meet up at an hour early.
Paul.

[NSXGB]

I've been told to meet him at 9pm tonight (at his hotel), not sure yet if I will be going in the NSX yet, but if I do happy to meet up at an hour early.
Paul.


I'm meeting him earlier now....mugging him not long after he gets off the ferry :D ,that saves me driving into London....

[Senninha]

I'm meeting him earlier now....mugging him not long after he gets off the ferry :D ,that saves me driving into London....
Was it you who met Dirk in Rochester? He mentioned 2, I think one may have been Siofkent??

I met Dirk around 7 in London, great guy who brought surprises and a gift for my unborn, very thoughtful (and softened the blow when I got home later than expected!!)

Dirk, thanx again for the great service, very nice to meet up and I hope you and your son enjoy the sights/museums.

Heres one of the links to the Japfest. If it doesn't clash with your trip then it would be great to see you. And tell Detlef that it will be dry and he can bring his car too!!

Kind regards, Paul

http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/testvb/showthread.php?t=2015

[Senninha]

Was advised against Project Mu pads for road use by SOS, they didn't elaborate more than that.

How are you getting on with them Paul?

6k miles on and these Mu's have been good. For 'normal' road use, and with the NSX-R discs, they have never not out-performed the OEM set-up.

I've not taken them on track but have been for a few spirited outings, one in late summer with the big boys from Pistonheads and by the end of the day they were showing signs of fade but were still pulling up well.

Given my annual mileage is around 5-6k I will probably try a more aggressive pad next year for comparison.

Any suggestions?

regards, Paul