Are spacers bad?

[AR]

I am thinking of adding 25mm hubcentric spacers to my BBS type S/ S-Zero/ Zanardi wheels. I have read that they can cause bearings failure and other problems, To me it is no different than having a wheel with the same end offset.

So what do you think?

Cheers

AR

[DTA-Motorsport]

Hi Ary,

I'm in the same spot - I need to get some spacers for my new Kahn RSC-2pc alloys (fronts only) but am unsure what to do.

As far as I am aware, so long as you have sufficiently long wheels studs to compensate for the thickness of the spacers and the spacers sit absolutely square and flush to the hub you should be ok.

The horror stories I've heard/read can all be traced back to either inferior quality spacers, incorrectly mounted spacers or insufficiently long wheel studs.

If I find any which suit my purpose I will let you know - unless of course you are having yours made to order.

ATB

Dan

EDIT: I've just seen that Detlef (ProCarParts) has H&R hubcentric spacers and it appears that if you go for the 25mm variant that the new bolts are build into the spacers - excellent solution.

[simonprelude]

Aren't the BBS's the correct offset to start with then ??

[AR]

They are Simon, but the RP-01 offsets closer to the wing, make the ca look a lot better IMHO. The OEM wheels are pushed too far in.

Cheers for the info Dan.

AR

[markc]

Ary,

There's quite a lot of info regarding this on Prime but IMHO you're spot on about the wheels looking better when pushed further out toward the arches.

From what I can gather although it will put more stress on the wheel bearing due to the greater leverage, I don't think this will make a huge differance to bearing life. As you say the same effect would be had if you fitted a wheel with a greater offset like your RP-01's so you're no worse off than with them.
It's not quite the same as fitting a wider wheel with the same offset as standard as this will spread the load either side of the wheel's centreline reducing the leverage on the wheel bearing.

I purchased a set of the 25mm H&R spacers and fitted them to my car. I think the rear looks fab but the front looked too wide with the 25mm's so I've gone with 7mm non hubcentric spacers on the front.
I think 15mm hubcentrics on the front would perfect but these won't work without shorter wheel studs fitted in place of the standard ones as these standard length ones will foul the wheel centre when you try and fit the wheel back on. I know this because I tried it 15mm one as well!
I wanted the option of being able to refit my 17/18 Kahn RS-R's relatively quickly ie without having to change all the front wheel studs each time.

I don't have any pics of mine to hand right now but the effect is shown in these threads...
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34494&highlight=aggressive+stance
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60847&highlight=spacers

The BBS wheels you (and I) have are exactly the same size and offset as the 16/17 "Blades" fitted from 1994-2002 so spacers have the same effect with them.

Cheers

Mark

[AR]

Cheers for the response Mark.

I assume that since the NSX hubs are different front to back your 25mm front set will be no good for my rears?

Who did you purchase the spacers from, and how quickly did they arrive?

Cheers

Ary

[markc]

Ary,

You're correct the fronts have a centre bore of 70.1mm compared to the rears 64.1mm so they won't work.

I ordered the set of 15mm's from Dali while I was visiting the US, when I found they didn't work I returned them to Dali (Mark J) and they credited me for them and sent a set of 25mm's. There was a short delay as Mark had lots of rears and no fronts but really no problem at all.
When I found that I didn't love the look of the 25mm's on the front I did a web search and found universal 7mm spacers at a local (to my workplace) shop, Speedshack in West Drayton. They do spacers and adapters of various sizes and I could have gone for 5,7,10 or 15 off the shelf. Perceived wisdom on Prime says don't go beyond 8mm without fitting longer wheels studs so I went for the 7mm's.
The BBS wheels have a relatively thin centre mount so there's loads of thread left with the spacers fitted.
To set the wheels off I purchased the black painted splined wheelnuts, or lugs as the Americans call 'em, from SOS. They look sooooo much better than the stock chrome ones on the darker finish of these wheels. Look here....
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/exterior%5Fperformance%5Fproducts/tuner%5Flug%5Fnuts/

Cheers

Mark

[AR]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the info once again. I noticed that although these are BBS wheels they still retain the " acorn" type base for the lugs. I have the tuner style lugs nuts that came with the RP-01, but these are conical, so I will use the OEM when I mount them until I can get a replacement with the acorn base.

Cheers

AR

[Procar Specials]

AR,

you will find a set of new 25mm spacers here.
They are special and do come with the different center bore for NSX.

http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/testvb/showthread.php?t=1706

Some guys are using that stuff at the race tracks here or with BBK's, so no qualms.

[Nick Graves]

You do know that to avoid undesirable handling traits(such as tramlining under braking, steering kickback etc), the offset is centred on the hubline and NOT the wheelarch line?

The incresed offset will also increase stress on the wheelbearings, to a degree.

Spacers increase unsprung weight, too.

Sounds a lot of negatives, merely for the sake of vanity, itself a negative!

[markc]

Nick,

You're right about the vanity comment of course, BUT if you're looking for a positive, the wider track will lower the roll centre.

IMHO the asthetic benefit is huge and the dynamic detriment negligable.

I'll have a stab at attaching some pics of my car that I took this afternoon.

Cheers

Mark

[simonprelude]

Looks good :)

First photo's of her reunited with the wheels :)

[Senninha]

Mark,

Car looks great, good to see the wheels where they belong! A quick question, are you on factory ride height for the S or have you lowered the car?

Regards

Paul

[markc]

Hi Paul,

I took the pics with my new camera bought specially for my upcoming (we set off at 6am next Saturday) roadtrip to Maranello.
I'd just finished final prep on the car which meant an oil change and a polish ahead of the circa 3000KM's we're about to do together over the next fortnight.

Mines still on the factory TypeS/Zanardi suspension and therefore the standard (for a Type S) ride height.

In a similar way to the Type R's it is very slighty lower (1-2cm) front and rear and substancially stiffer although not as stiff as either of the the Type R's or Type S Zero.

There's a US test (Car & Driver) of a Zanardi at the following link that discusses the suspension differances.... http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Media/magazines/cd9907.htm

Cheers

Mark

[Ciaran]

up to four months ago I would have agreed with everything said so far, however having purchased a fine (IMHO) set of ENKI wheels from Mark J (see links below), that required a rear spacer, my local spanner man raised a number of concerns with spacers in a car like an NSX.


http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/testvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=1236&stc=1&d=1152992225
http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/testvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=1237&stc=1&d=1152992157
http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/testvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=1238&stc=1&d=1152991651

His primary concern was that a cars weight is carried not by the wheel nuts, but by the hub. The hub fits snugly into the wheel centre, and the wheel nuts keep the two faces tight together, the is the job they are designed to do, and the only job they are designed to do......

Under adverse conditions a wheel may flex, but the hub faces are bound together by the torque of the wheel nuts.

When you introduce a spacer, you push the hub away from the wheel centre which is designed to take the weight. His simple example was to place the wheel onto the hub without a spacer (if you can do this without the tyre fitted its much easier), and try to move it around, ... it won't budge. Put the spacer in and see how much it moves... I did and it was enough to convince me that spacers on this performance car were a no no. His big issue was that you are completely depending on the wheel nuts to (a) take all the weight, including cornering weight, (b) Keep the wheel centred to the hub, and (c) transmit any additional loadings, ie bumps, pot holes, and curbs through to the suspension.

It bothered me enough to look at skimming a little off the Brake caliper carrier instead. So far so good, second track day on Friday next, anyone for a quick trip across the pond......

[AR]

Ary,

You're correct the fronts have a centre bore of 70.1mm compared to the rears 64.1mm so they won't work.

I ordered the set of 15mm's from Dali while I was visiting the US, when I found they didn't work I returned them to Dali (Mark J) and they credited me for them and sent a set of 25mm's. There was a short delay as Mark had lots of rears and no fronts but really no problem at all.
When I found that I didn't love the look of the 25mm's on the front I did a web search and found universal 7mm spacers at a local (to my workplace) shop, Speedshack in West Drayton. They do spacers and adapters of various sizes and I could have gone for 5,7,10 or 15 off the shelf. Perceived wisdom on Prime says don't go beyond 8mm without fitting longer wheels studs so I went for the 7mm's.
The BBS wheels have a relatively thin centre mount so there's loads of thread left with the spacers fitted.
To set the wheels off I purchased the black painted splined wheelnuts, or lugs as the Americans call 'em, from SOS. They look sooooo much better than the stock chrome ones on the darker finish of these wheels. Look here....
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/exterior%5Fperformance%5Fproducts/tuner%5Flug%5Fnuts/

Cheers

Mark

Hey Mark do they do the acorn type? My open ended lugs that came with my NSX with the RP-01 are conical, so I need a new set.

Cheers

AR

[markc]

Hi Ciaran,

You make a good point. A couple of observations back...

The 25mm "spacers" are actually more acurately "adapters" and like the original hub they have a spigot in their centre to mount the wheel on ie they are hubcentric. The problem you correctly describe therefore does happen with these adapters.

The 7mm "spacers" I used on the front of mine DO have some of drawbacks you describe, however the spigot is some 10mm+ deep and therefore there is still some sprigot centreing going on and the wheel studs don't do all of this work.

"Spacers" larger than 10mm will a) prevent any hub/spigot centreing and b) leave too little stud length for absolutely safe location.

Ary, I was wondering what you meant by acorn type so I've just taken one off to check. The ones I have are conical not acorn and therefore wrong for my wheels!!! I can't believe I didn't notice.

Needless to say I will change them all back again. Good job I hadn't been very far (although it didn't show up as a problem) and you pointed this out before I set off around Europe with the wrong wheelnuts on!

Cheers

Mark

[AR]

Glad to point that out then! I fitted the OEM chrome ones and to be honest since mine had BBS centres it looks good IMHO.

Cheers

AR

[NSXGB]

Mark, I see you went for non hubcentric spacers on the front, do you get any vibration or wobble from the wheels?
I'm after a set of 5mm spacers and not sure whether to go for normal or hubcentric spacers...I'm not sure if you are able to even get hubcentric's that small.





Ary,

You're correct the fronts have a centre bore of 70.1mm compared to the rears 64.1mm so they won't work.

I ordered the set of 15mm's from Dali while I was visiting the US, when I found they didn't work I returned them to Dali (Mark J) and they credited me for them and sent a set of 25mm's. There was a short delay as Mark had lots of rears and no fronts but really no problem at all.
When I found that I didn't love the look of the 25mm's on the front I did a web search and found universal 7mm spacers at a local (to my workplace) shop, Speedshack in West Drayton. They do spacers and adapters of various sizes and I could have gone for 5,7,10 or 15 off the shelf. Perceived wisdom on Prime says don't go beyond 8mm without fitting longer wheels studs so I went for the 7mm's.
The BBS wheels have a relatively thin centre mount so there's loads of thread left with the spacers fitted.
To set the wheels off I purchased the black painted splined wheelnuts, or lugs as the Americans call 'em, from SOS. They look sooooo much better than the stock chrome ones on the darker finish of these wheels. Look here....
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/exterior%5Fperformance%5Fproducts/tuner%5Flug%5Fnuts/

Cheers

Mark

[eclipse1501]

Ive been spaced out for years :rolleyes: with no ill effects to the NSX, plus got some on a 25 year old 911 without a minutes problem.

[simonprelude]

Mark, I see you went for non hubcentric spacers on the front, do you get any vibration or wobble from the wheels?
I'm after a set of 5mm spacers and not sure whether to go for normal or hubcentric spacers...I'm not sure if you are able to even get hubcentric's that small.

I have a set of non hubcentric ones that you can borrow.
They are for the S2000 but PCD and centre bore are same size.

I tried to get hubcentric ones but couldn't get any :(

[NSXGB]

I have a set of non hubcentric ones that you can borrow.
They are for the S2000 but PCD and centre bore are same size.

I tried to get hubcentric ones but couldn't get any :(

Thanks for the offer Simon. I've found a set of universal ones for £16 at a place I can go to on the way back from the cafe tomorrow morning - Speed Shack that Markc mentioned. Hopefully they will be ok....

[Senninha]

Simon (NSXGB),

Are these spacers for the new rims?

regards, Paul

[NSXGB]

Simon (NSXGB),

Are these spacers for the new rims?

regards, Paul

Yes mate....