Battery terminals

[Senninha]

Hi All,

Ive seen in the past that owners have replaced battery leads to address worn connectors … is this the only option or can the terminals be replaced independent of the cables? Is this even a good idea?

Why do I ask? Well after years of ensuring I don't over tighten the terminals as strongly advised in the many blog posts Ive read and been told by several owners in person, I’ve recently had a issue with the car randomly cutting out. It would always restart but last week it did it several times in quick succession which is clearly not good or safe as it would happen without any warning or warning lights in advance.

On further investigation it appeared to be when everything was upto operating temps and particular after a spirited drive.

What I noticed was that when the front bay was at fill temp and full of hot air, these terminals were not as tight as when cold. I put this down to the the expansion caused by heat. I therefore proceeded to pinch the clamps a little tighter whilst everything was warm and so far, all seems good and Ive not (yet) had a repeat of the engine stalling scenario.

Sharing in case anyone else has had a similar issue as this might help others eliminate an issue. If I get an answer to the terminal question I may replace anyway as part of preventative maintenance.

Enjoy your NSX this Christmas and New Year … the roads are nice and quiet and you could put smiles on the faces of those that are out and about …

Season’s Greeting’s Paul

[NZNick]

Are you sure that this is the battery connections? - My first thought was main relay.

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, Paul.
If you were always able to restart the car, I think the clamp was not loose enough to be the cause of your issue.
In fact, I think the main cause is in the different area such as the IGSW, fuel pump resistor wire, etc.

One should never try the following because of the risk of damaging the electronics controller/sensor/etc due to huge surge power but one ‘could’ disconnect the battery while the engine is running.

The engine will keep running under most of the cases.
Each car manufactures have their own criteria against the surge protection and most of the components such as the ECU, etc are well protected and even tested against such scenarios.

However, the sensors, ICE, etc especially the aftermarket ones may not survive.

Even saw some mechanics replacing car battery while keeping the engine running at idle rpm as they didn’t want losing the radio security code, radio station programming, etc in old days.

On youtube, some people are still doing the same when showing off the performance of new jump battery pack without connecting the car battery and suddenly disconnecting the jump pack….

So, you may want looking at different area such as the IGSW, fuel pressure, cable exit of the fuel pump resistor, etc.


If you are worried about the OEM GND cable clamp, for emergency temporary fix, you can get cheap terminal shim over amazon, ebay, etc.
Even DIY food foil shim can save you if you need something to keep you on the move.


One of the good thing about attending car events is to be able to speak to other professionals and learn something new.
Those into the ICE system, many recommends the products from KnuKonceptz.

If you search using the word 'ultimate battery terminal', you will find lots of examples including other manufactures.

There are few different models available and depending on the battery shape and the number of extra wires installed, you need to select the one that suits you.

If you have EPS, you may need some consideration on the length and orientation of the GND wire eyelet terminal.

If you don’t have too many aftermarket wires at the battery, personally, I would just install the GND side with the optional battery post.
Keep using the OEM GND cable if not damaged as you no longer need dealing with the soft material at the actual car battery post.

Kaz

[Old guy]

This is a bit late to the party; but, I will add in anyway.

This is what a dead battery post terminal looks like. In the first photo you can see that the clamping bolt is completely 'bottomed out'. I was able to pull the terminal off the battery post without loosening the bolt. The second photo shows the area, circled in red on the terminal where the metal had started to tear.

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OK - image up loading not working right now so perhaps I will do that later.

It is definitely possible to re terminate the cables. I re terminated mine around 2012 and they are still working just fine. The elegance of the re termination is up to you. If you do a search on the NSXPrime web site there are at least a couple of threads with pictures describing less (mine) or more elegant re terminations.

As an observation, if the terminals are nice and tight on the battery post, I don't think it is automatic that they should be replaced. I had a 2003 Honda Pilot that I parted with in 2021. The battery post terminals (identical to the original NSX terminals) were original and nice and tight because when I tightened them up I did not treat them like a torque to yield bolt (the yield being the clamp material rather than the bolt). On my NSX I also switched to an AGM battery which keeps everything nice and corrosion free down there.

For a car that loses power intermittently while driving, my favorite pick would be the ignition switch. If you lose things like the dash lights and other electrical functions I would advance this to 'just replace it'. The switches are relatively inexpensive from Amayama and aside from the neck and back pain associated with replacement not technically difficult to replace. If it is just the engine dropping out it could be a failing main EFI relay or potentially lots of other stuff. Since all NSXs are now 20 or more years old, I would treat the ignition switch as a refresh maintenance item unless the car is very low mileage.

[Senninha]

Thanks Nick, I replaced the main relay a few years back and Kaz serviced my original that i retain as a spare. Is ther a way to test its condition whilst its in the car and with my limited electrical car knowledge?


Are you sure that this is the battery connections? - My first thought was main relay.

[Senninha]

Thanx old Guy,

I dont see the photos you reference ….

Kaz also mentions the ignition switch. I recall a couple of posts about changing/servicing so will search this and look into obtaining a replacement. As you say, looking after these cars is a lot about preventative maintenance.

Questions ref the swap … I have the OEM alarm system installed which was replaced many years ago by Honda Norton Way. Would you or Kaz know if this adds any complexity to replacing the IGSW?

Thx, Paul

[Senninha]

It’s most likely the way Im searching, however I cannot locate an IGSW on Amayama‘s website … any guidance welcomed … TIA

[NSXGB]

It’s most likely the way Im searching, however I cannot locate an IGSW on Amayama‘s website … any guidance welcomed … TIA

https://www.amayama.com/en/genuine-catalogs/epc/honda-europe/nsx/1998_6MT/21810/electric/B__1101

[Senninha]

Found this on Prime as how to test the IGSW ….

I had the same problem a year ago and my car would start then it would immediatly die. Here is how I determined that it was the switch, turn the key to start the car and when the car starts release the key back a little bit (not all the way back to where the factory return is)and the car will stay running, but play around and let the key return to were it usually does the car will probably die. Inside the ignition switch it is spring loaded to where the key returns after the car is started and when that starts to wear out then the key returns to any spot, most likely the off spot.

Posting and seeking approval from my more technical friends please …. Thx, P

[Senninha]

Thanks Simon … it looks like I need this … and the keys?

[NSXGB]

Hi Paul, just item 10 I believe.
I think they are the same for all years. Alternatively, you could clean the old one up.

[Senninha]

Many Thanks Simon ….

[NSXGB]

No problem!

[Old guy]

Thanx old Guy,

I dont see the photos you reference ….

Kaz also mentions the ignition switch. I recall a couple of posts about changing/servicing so will search this and look into obtaining a replacement. As you say, looking after these cars is a lot about preventative maintenance.

Questions ref the swap … I have the OEM alarm system installed which was replaced many years ago by Honda Norton Way. Would you or Kaz know if this adds any complexity to replacing the IGSW?

Thx, Paul

After a little experimenting, I discovered that my image files were too large. Compressing them got them to the point that I could up-load them.

As to whether an aftermarket alarm complicates things will depend on the quality of the installation. I ditched the aftermarket alarm system in my car over a decade ago (shortly after I got it) because it was causing problems. A few years ago I ordered a new ignition switch for my car because I was getting that intermittent operation problem which I thought was switch related. However, after getting the original switch out, it turns out that the actual switch was just fine. It was the hack job that the aftermarket alarm installers did on the ignition switch pig tail that was causing the problem. Notice that wire that has completely pulled out of the butt splice?

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I put the new switch in the car because I wanted everything back together and the new switch was on hand. Switch replacement is a literal pain in the neck and 'old guy' does not want to be repeatedly crawling in and out under the dash so doing everything at once was the plan. However, I later patched up the wiring on the original switch, ditching all those tap connectors and repairing with proper uninsulated closed barrel crimps and heat shrink tubing, cleaned and lubricated the switch contacts with conducting grease and the switch works just fine. It is now a spare that I will probably never need in my lifetime.

14965

Just about all aftermarket alarm systems need to tie into the connections that go to the ignition switch. There are a number of places that they can do this. For installers that are not NSX specialists the ignition switch pigtail provides a convenient location. This can be done nicely or it can be a bodge like mine. So chances are that your aftermarket alarm install will have connections going to the ignition switch. If those connections are on the pigtail side of the switch you will need to replicate them if you want to retain the aftermarket alarm system so that complicates things. If the connections were done on the body side of the vehicle wiring harness then you don't need to touch them and it may just be a case of 'in, out and away you go'.

All will depend on what surprises you find when you get in there. You didn't mention the aftermarket alarm system in your original post. My personal opinion is that they are an instrument of the devil in terms of compromising reliability. Have a very close look at the wiring associated with the aftermarket alarm as your intermittent operation might not be associated with the ignition switch. However, a new ignition switch on a 20+ year old car would never be a bad thing.

[Old guy]

Found this on Prime as how to test the IGSW ….

I had the same problem a year ago and my car would start then it would immediatly die. Here is how I determined that it was the switch, turn the key to start the car and when the car starts release the key back a little bit (not all the way back to where the factory return is)and the car will stay running, but play around and let the key return to were it usually does the car will probably die. Inside the ignition switch it is spring loaded to where the key returns after the car is started and when that starts to wear out then the key returns to any spot, most likely the off spot.

Posting and seeking approval from my more technical friends please …. Thx, P

If you go to NSXPrime you will find links to the 1991 service manual. In the electrical section on page 23-72 there is a test procedure for checking the switch. However, this test procedure requires permanent failure to catch the problem. If the problem is intermittent the switch may pass at the time it is being tested.

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, Paul.

Used to be reasonably priced aftermarket one available on Rockauto.

britlude – aka Jonathan had good experience;
http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?10150-Britludes-NSX-story&p=120469#post120469

Please check on Rockauto but at the current exchange rate, probably just get the OEM one from Japan.

Please note that majority of Japanese companies are in the middle of new year holiday season.
Should be back from next week.

Also, Honda Japan revised the parts price on the new year’s day.
Therefore, the latest price may change.

On few occasions, I saw security people created breakout loom on the IGSW cable.
Hope it’s not the case on yours.


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczNjwzCqN7Hr_QBOaNxqLPVH8rjv7rKQKp4m3N2CnhprnU x_E52IWUwMoxoJzMZnxWDyB0QFJ5chiDCuj2027zskEI0-jQ2TJAW_IALf2CJJzBQBTkMWe-22WnGGRepER0LURnV3Uxrnd4Ewcpo-fuFtRw=w1080-h810-s-no?authuser=0
While some reported that removing the 2 x tiny screws at the back of the key cyl holding the IGSW cable was challenging,
I found it more difficult to separate this 250 brown connector from the cabin loom.




https://youtu.be/BluBrNMSEjI?feature=shared
How to test the IGSW on our NSX.
Please watch it in Youtube and read the description for further info.

In fact, I'll cut & paste it.
How to test the IGnition SWitch (IGSW) on Honda/Acura NSX.
No need starting the engine.
Turn IGSW into P2 ON. Lots of lights on the dash.
Keep eye on the Volt Gauge.
Turn IGSW towards P3 START (cranking) just a tiny bit and try NOT to start the engine.
Quickly release the key to let it return to P2 ON.
On many occasions (especially after 0:19), you'll notice the volt gauge dropping while wiggling the IG Key.
This should not happen and the main cause is the fretting corrosion between switch contacts.
As a temporary fix, you could clean them using the fibreglass pen, old school pencil with eraser at the top or 3000 - 5000 grit sand paper.


Took this video 11 years ago at lower resolution so not great quality but hope you can get the idea.
No need starting the engine.
In fact, try not to for this test method.


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczN0-xawdJpCXT8JUACPx4NZaJk2G-YUmXWvqh9HImQJ28krmf-hpbx-tggBbKAVUEdeHtoAIH-lG62BZsWvYjJ1LOlpIeRZGI9vIfKE3ZjTplsEuUAiMrGwry6Q4 jLfXSRDN63TyaeB9HgG6hzguAR-9w=w1080-h813-s-no?authuser=0
Contaminated IGSW terminals
Before/After

While waiting for the new parts to arrive, you can clean the terminals on the existing one.
If this is the first time doing this, it will help on re-assembly by marking the IGSW barrel/body at P0 OFF position so that you know how it came off from the key cyl.

You can use fibreglass pen, old school pencil with the eraser at the top or gently polish with 3000-5000 grit paper.

Probably I went too far polishing the contacts on this one but at least, it served the purpose for years.


Kaz

[Senninha]

Thanks for the video and accompanying details … I have a project to be getting on with but that will hav to wait a couple of weeks due to other commitments …

Thanks all for support … I love NSXCB …