Using Jump Start terminals for trickle charger?

[goldtop]

My car has an alarm/immobiliser and therefore has some drain. And it's not a daily driver. So - to make sure the battery's not flat when I do want to go out - I want to use a trickle charger. The workshop manual kindly explains where the 'jump start' terminals are in the engine bay.

I'm hoping I can use these, which are far more convenient, instead of trying to get to and from the battery itself whenever I want to drive/park the car.

Anyone doing this already?

[NZNick]

I had my garage instal the eyelet lead and connector which came with my CTEK battery charger/maintainer on the battery + & - leads so that all I have to do is lift the bonnet, unclip the CTEK connector extension lead before driving the car, and the reverse when I park up in the garage. The connector is positioned above the battery towards the front firewall and has a rubber waterproof / dust cover.
https://www.ctek.com/uk/battery-chargers-12v-24v/accessories/motorcycle-accessories/connect-eyelet-m6
Takes 30 seconds before driving, and a whole minute when plugging back in, in the garage.

[goldtop]

I had my garage instal the eyelet lead and connector which came with my CTEK battery charger/maintainer on the battery + & - leads so that all I have to do is lift the bonnet, unclip the CTEK connector extension lead before driving the car, and the reverse when I park up in the garage. The connector is positioned above the battery towards the front firewall and has a rubber waterproof / dust cover.
https://www.ctek.com/uk/battery-chargers-12v-24v/accessories/motorcycle-accessories/connect-eyelet-m6
Takes 30 seconds before driving, and a whole minute when plugging back in, in the garage.

Perfect - that'd work for me. So I've just ordered a CTEK to replace the bulky Ring charger I've been using until now.

Thanks! :)

[duncan]

For those in the cheap seats, CTEK sell an extension cable with a male plug at one end and a females socket at the other. If this is cut in half the cut ends can be grafted onto anyone else’s smart charger.
I have an older CTEK at one end of the garage and an adapted Lidl’s finest smart charger at the other end of the garage.

[FlopShot]

There's also a magnetic breakaway connector that you can purchase for the CTEK. So if you drive away and forgot to disconnect the tender cable, this mag connector simply falls away. Finding a good place to mount the mag connector is the tricky part, I started looking but never got around to it on the NSX, and then switched to an Anti-Gravity lithium-ion battery with ReStart so no longer needed the tender. But here it is on my Lotus, just so you get the idea of what it does, it's held to the rear license plate screws with a 3D printed holder, as the battery in in the boot directly behind the taillight. You can purchase the whole kit here (Lotus parts site): https://hethelsport.com/tools/charger-connection-kit/

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[goldtop]

Thanks FS. I've got a CTEK on order and will see how I run the cables when it arrives. I think I'll have to try some type of aide memoire to remind me of the charger being attached. Worse case is leaving the bonnet propped open. That magnetic thingy is a nice idea though - Plan B. :)

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczPAqtl7UtPrGSUvW1MEZcVygX9u3Gu0XoddL8Ioz53Sul qAPSYCgZalRFPodCgIHnto2XxQhOJjD45ADtycyhjpbY59kJpo ckSHfhGBJwpA7enEQusw_dcRGjuZYFaZat1wtYy4wgRLXnoM8j fIf-k09Q=w1080-h810-s-no?authuser=0
For your inspiration....





https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczP2MzuDPUV4eoljwF33YB6K8aQkXWpV94y1II_MMNBzSt AQEDcEBsqvUNqqxdQnhsIQ3RF_VSr98Cyu_FHX43pY8knv_iFX 4NHJlTgdpJ31KoB_f-z3ascmL99cOfsEqQHSKroezt0eJ6m2IGfmz6Pl5A=w1080-h810-s-no?authuser=0
For the GND (yellow), I used the bolt (green) at the welded bracket (light blue).

With the multimeter, the mating thread at the bracket was reading very good GND level.


For the positive terminal, I thought for a moment as it could be misleading.
But going to show my setup as the reference only.
Please do your own risk management.





https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczN6eQoaoiT5Vffvgxk64KoaBtRLpDGTfPp2NE4_VvY8V2 gNZiQmvFy9UEPLYG2jVjZjud05BaU7jH8u_hfPlzja0RBs9u6c fNpJAkX6eWdY11Ao9xHATf-WWcYkzigAsdWNqREATccvfHe-syOMKyZ3oA=w1080-h810-s-no?authuser=0
The CTEK cable doesn’t have its own fuse block but at very short length.

My MXS 5.0 is rated at 5A max.

The block (pal) fuse in the photo is slow blowing type and only available in large amperage.

Couldn’t find adaptor that can accommodate fast blown blade type like 7.5A.

Based on the above and with some risk management, I selected this 40A (rear defogger) position that first goes through the 120A one.
I carry all sorts of spare fuse including these block type on my NSX.
I can live without the rear defogger under emergency condition.
Other fuses could prevent you from driving.
Having said this, by the time 40A fuse is blown, I would say the CTEK wire would be fried and melted.
After all, it’s slow blown type so most likely, won’t be able to drive anyway and thus, please do your own risk management.
The fuse box arragement would be different depending on the spec and year model as well.


For the 'self reminder', I always keep glove in the glove box and whenever I have to connect the battery conditioner, I place it over the shift knob.

I also use notice board hanging from the rear view mirror if there is something to be warned/remembered in case someone else enters the car.

These days, if you attend some of the car events, you get ‘hang at the mirror’ ticket instead of ‘stick to the windshield’ so plenty spares.


Kaz

[goldtop]

Perfect Kaz. Wow.

Thanks for such a detailed explanation. I will follow your example as Plan A.

And I will buy an extra glove. :)

[priesh]

Hi Kaz - I'm new to NSX ownership and am going to fit a CTEK connector similar to you soon. Can I ask why you connected the +ve eyelet to that rear defogger position and not use one of the +ve jump post screw locations? Is it because you wanted a fuse inbetween?

Cheers!

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Hi, priesh. Welcome to the Forum.
Small community but everyone trying to help each other.


Pretty much main reason was described in the above post so I’ll add extra info.

As mentioned, it could be ‘misleading’ unless you carry out your own risk management.


If you are not sure of your setup, please just add fast blown blade fuse socket close to the battery or the fuse/relay box for added safety.


I selected this method based on my garage setup, fuse/relay box design and most importantly, the procedures that I have to follow when using the battery conditioner.

Please note that the fuse/relay box layout is different depending on the spec of one’s NSX.
I also use extra optional fuse (7.5A) in there.

I have electronics control background and based on the risk management, decided to use that pal slow blown fuse block.

For me, the risk of causing short circuit other than the internal CTEK failure is very little.
By the time the 40A fuse is blown, the thin CTEK wires would be fried.

I use the same CTEK eyelet wire at the front directly connected to the battery terminals and for that one, I don’t even use fuse close to the battery.
Again, it’s based on the risk management specific to my environment/procedure.

CTEK has its own short circuit protection circuit internally (you can even try it, I did) so if the cause of short circuit is going to be within the CTEK module, the circuit board has to fail.

Outside of the CTEK module, it will be caused by the wire damages due to mishandling, moved the car without disconnecting the cable first, wire being chewed by the small friend, etc.
Or, by the actual car battery internal failure.

With my setup, I can’t even move the car or start the engine without first carrying out specific procedures and hence, very low risk.


As a side note, if your battery is not healthy, don’t rely too much on any ‘basic’ battery conditioners from the likes of CTEK, Accumate/Optimate, etc.

They won’t be able to detect several battery failure modes.

Because of this, even if it says 100% fully charged, you may not be able to crank the engine or even after the successful start, you could be stranded at the next stop.

I use affortable digital battery tester for my purpose and so far, it served quite well when CTEK misdiagnosed the battery health.


Kaz

[priesh]

Thanks for the info Kaz - much appreciated. Will look into adding an inline fuse to give myself a bit more protection.

Cheers!

[britlude]

i have this on mine.... fuse already in line

https://www.amazon.co.uk/CTEK-40-133-Start-Indicator-Eyelet/dp/B015352MQQ/ref=asc_df_B015352MQQ/?asc_source=01J3NF8C5MVTHVNEQMAHFDJRJP&gad_source=1&hvadid=697352097737&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9045020&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9125848840504965615&hvtargid=pla-565440849033&linkCode=df0&mcid=163dd1d71ee53274a290bf3bf82c131a&tag=snxgb449-21&th=1

[priesh]

Thanks - makes things easier

[priesh]

Fitted the ctek this morning. Changed the 3 pin plug into a waterproof connector that then connects to an outdoor rated lead into my garage (NSX currently parked outdoors)

All seems to be working ok - thanks for the info guys.

[goldtop]

Without wishing to cause any unnecessary worries, the use of the CTEK MX5 seems to have killed my NSX's battery. It was working fine for several weeks - the string of LEDs showing progress illuminated and then changed as normal = all healthy. And then one day the string of LEDs was not lit.

Now, when disconnecting and reconnecting, the CTEK doesn't seem to think there's a battery attached.

I will investigate more this week.

[sorepaws]

I have a CTEK MX5 - it has been used without any problems since 2018.

[goldtop]

I have a CTEK MX5 - it has been used without any problems since 2018.

Yes, this one has worked fine for several months. I checked it every morning.

Am hoping it was just a bad battery.

[britlude]

Without wishing to cause any unnecessary worries, the use of the CTEK MX5 seems to have killed my NSX's battery. It was working fine for several weeks - the string of LEDs showing progress illuminated and then changed as normal = all healthy. And then one day the string of LEDs was not lit.

Now, when disconnecting and reconnecting, the CTEK doesn't seem to think there's a battery attached.

I will investigate more this week.

did the ctek get switched off at the power source?

i found that if its not powered up, but still connected to the battery it WILL discharge the battery completely. so if you want to switch it off overnight, for example, i HAVE to unclip it from the battery too

and i have found if a battery is very flat i have to give it a kick with a conventional battery charger, to get enough voltage for the ctek to recognise a battery is connected

[goldtop]

Not switched off, as far as I know. Unless there was a power cut at the workshop?

(Bizarre that the CTEK wouldn't have a simple diode fitted to stop discharge of the battery!)

[priesh]

Hopefully you'll figure out what happened. You can get a battery health tester to see what condition the battery is in. Like you say it probably was that

[Senninha]

NZNick ,,, This is how I have mine set up too …

[NZNick]

I’m sure I copied it from someone here back in 2015-ish, possibly you!

[Old guy]

Without wishing to cause any unnecessary worries, the use of the CTEK MX5 seems to have killed my NSX's battery. It was working fine for several weeks - the string of LEDs showing progress illuminated and then changed as normal = all healthy. And then one day the string of LEDs was not lit.

Now, when disconnecting and reconnecting, the CTEK doesn't seem to think there's a battery attached.

I will investigate more this week.

How old was the battery? Maintenance free batteries (AGM or conventional) have the distressing characteristic of seeming to be just fine and then 15 minutes later suffering a massive MI and not being able to be revived. I have had occassion where I have driven a car someplace in the summer months, parked it and come out to a 100% dead car. No prior warning such as a slow starter motor or dimming headlights. When they fail in this manner they will not accept charge (the CTEK lights do not go through their progression).

Maintenance free batteries seem to have an operational life of about 6-8 years. If you have ever allowed the battery to go flat (headlights on / parasitic loads) this will skew towards a shorter life (much shorter if you do this frequently). I have had a Volvo 242 GT, Volvo 745 turbo, Honda Pilot and the NSX and they have all suffered from the 'it was fine 15 minutes ago' battery failure. The CTEK will help prevent the shortened battery life due to parasitic loads. On a car with a charging system that is in good order it will not materially extend the battery life.

Sometimes a dead battery is just a dead battery and not caused by anything other than the ageing process. At around 6-7 years I always start wondering 'should I change it pre-emptively or wait and get caught' . My current DD is an Audi A4 wagon and it actually monitors and stores current flow into and out of the battery and will give you a heads up when the battery is approaching its end of life - about 6-10 months before it goes completely dead if you choose to ignore the warning message every morning.

[goldtop]

Not sure how old my battery was. From memory, I did buy a new one a few years ago, but it's possible that was 6 years ago. And/or it's possible that lack of use contributed to premature failure. I did see that there was another old thread about a battery failing while 'maintained' by the CTEK: http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?15578-Replacement-battery-advice

Anyway, I've ordered a new Yuasa today.

[bernev]

How did this go? Incidentally my perfectly fine s/s battery in my Fiat 500 DD died over Xmas with no warning. Despite being shown to be “healthy” on ctek. Even the technicians who came to revive the car said the battery was fine. I said it wasn’t - check the amps! They did and agreed it was full of volts but had no power. Dead

[Heineken]

One of the damages that can happen to lead acid batteries is lead powder accumulating at the bottom of the battery and shorting a cell.
This makes it fail from one second to another, while it was working perfectly before. One reason to replace batteries at fixed intervals, if possible.

[NSX100]

Just after I read this post I went to the garage and found that the CTEK was flashing the on/off power light yellow . All other lights were off. Checked battery. Flat!!! Any ideas why the CTEK would stop charging the battery? I am not sure of the age of the battery but at least 5 years and it does not get much use - about 1,000 miles a year max. The battery is on the CTEK more than it is on the road. I have it on the charger now but it did show completely flat.

Ideas, comments welcome.

Thanks

David

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

Flashing power indicator means CTEK entered into the power saving mode.
It couldn’t detect battery connection within 2min after being powered up or the battery voltage was way too low and below the 2.0V threshold.

Thus, from what you wrote, the latter case.

Either you lost good connection at some point, extremely high drain current while connected or the battery reached its end of life.


Seems like you mangaed to somehow charge it using certain charger and not the CTEK.

With CTEK, you could connect another battery like jump starter pack in parallel to bypass the minimum voltage protection (be careful) to initiate the Step 1 of the CTEK cycle.
Remove the jumper pack once the cycle gets going but because you let the battery so flat, it may never complete the full cycles.

If your battery is an ordinary lead acid flood type, more than 5 years old and went flat even for once, you’ll never recover the full capacity.

Personally, I would replace it with a new one.

As a last resort, if you managed to kick start the cycle using the above method, try the CTEK Re-condition mode FOR LEAD ACID BATTERY ONLY.
You may or may not be able to re-use the battery.

Please note, re-condition feature relies on the chemical reaction and lots of bubbles to physically shake/peel off the sulphate layer from the cell surface by passing pulsated high current.
Therefore, TAKE THE BATTERY OUT OF THE CAR for added safety.

Though, in my view, it’s only effective at the early stage of sulphation.


Even with the new battery, if you haven't found the reason why the existing battery went flat, chances are .....

Every time when the battery gone flat or disconnected, you were resetting the ECU and erasing all the codes stored on all of the controllers except for the upgraded ABS.

I wrote about the battery health few days ago.
Please visit Kaz’s not so build thread and you’ll find the link ‘Jan/25’ next to the tag [Battery Health].

You may find some of the info useful including the candidates for the replacement battery.

Please note that even if CTEK indicates that the battery is 100% fully charged, that doesn't mean it's healthy.
Seen many examples of fully charged battery yet it couldn't even crank the engine just for one turn.


Kaz

[NSX100]

Excellent Kaz - unparalleled advice as always!

A dead battery is a good bet based on your referenced thread and my own assumptions so I will replace it with a new one. The local Halfords has the Yuasa one you recommend so I will go for that.

Thanks again

David