New Civic Type-R Geneva Pics (Sory Off Topic)!

[TheQuietOne]

Hi Guys and Girl(s),

Just got this through from Honda though you may be interested:

http://www.hondaeu-news.com/en/index.pmode/modul|detail|0|493|21|image|1/index.pmode

Now I wonder if they'll do it in New Formula Red?!?!?!

Matt

P.S. Link won't work so you'll have to copy all the link text and paste it into your browser bar - sorry!

[simonprelude]

Ahem...

[imvarma]

http://www.autoweek.com/files/specials/2006_geneva/honda/civicr/images/01.jpg

http://www.autoweek.com/files/specials/2006_geneva/honda/civicr/images/02.jpg

http://www.autoweek.com/files/specials/2006_geneva/honda/civicr/images/04.jpg

http://www.autoweek.com/files/specials/2006_geneva/honda/civicr/images/05.jpg

http://www.autoweek.com/files/specials/2006_geneva/honda/civicr/images/06.jpg

[TheQuietOne]

Ahem...

I reckon you should have to donate £5 to the site everytime you use that GIF!!!! :D

Here are some more then as I was beaten to it...they might all be duplications so sorry if they are...also appologies in advance for the picture of that rusty looking '98 car :wink:

[TheQuietOne]

More...

[TheQuietOne]

More...

[TheQuietOne]

More...just for those who are new to the NSX thing...

[TheQuietOne]

More

[TheQuietOne]

More

[TheQuietOne]

Last ones...sorry this turned into an odd mix, all the pics that come up when you search for NSX on the Honda Press Images site.

Hopefully there are a few each person hasn't seen...if not any moderator please feel free to delete my posts if they are not suitable for the site :!:

Cheers,

Matt.

[simonprelude]

Ahem...

I reckon you should have to donate £5 to the site everytime you use that GIF!!!! :D

Here are some more then as I was beaten to it...they might all be duplications so sorry if they are...also appologies in advance for the picture of that rusty looking '98 car :wink:

Goes off in a huff to caress the rusty looking '97 car :)

[TheQuietOne]

LOL...sorry '97!

[Rob_Fenn]

Did Max Power run a competition called 'Design the next CTR competition?'

I think they had one too many chavs in their focus groups...

[Mr_Spanners]

Looks like the original ethos of 'Type R' (weight saving and balance) has well and truly been kicked into touch :cry: I guess this is really a true statement of intent from Honda.... letting the bead counters design the car and not the engineers.

Oh dear!

~Phil.

[Senninha]

I beg to differ Mr Spanners ... unlike ALL other manufacturers at present, this concept Type R is actually lighter than the model it replaces according to Honda. Maybe the bean counters have calculated that by saving weight you gain performance at less engineering cost, £ for £ :idea:

Honda also claim the CIvic will have sharper steering and a stiffer chassis .... the only potential flaw is the move away from independent suspension but I guess we wont know until someone drives it

Interestingly, it's also rumoured that Honda may be adopting the RR tag from the bikes to deliver a more extreme track-day focussed version :D

Regards

[Lankstarr]

I heard the the standard type R (as if Typr Rs could ever be referred to as std!!) will have the same engine as the current civic and that the RR will get 240bhp.... seems like an awful lot of stallions for those poor little front wheels to me :wink: :?:

[TheQuietOne]

those poor little front wheels

I don't call 20" small...do you :wink:

[simonprelude]

The only thing that worries me is what are the chav's going to do to make it even more chavvy (if that's a word).

[Sagacitas]

Start up a charity collecting for the Chav nots? :lol:

[Lankstarr]

Speaking of what Chavs can do to cars i once saw this Prelude..... :twisted:

[Senninha]

Speaking of what Chavs can do to cars i once saw this Prelude.....


Excellent, LoL, :lol: :lol: :lol:

[simonprelude]

Oi !!

Leave it alone.

The experiment didn't turn out exactly as I wanted but hey do I care ??

[Mr_Spanners]

I beg to differ Mr Spanners ... unlike ALL other manufacturers at present, this concept Type R is actually lighter than the model it replaces according to Honda. Maybe the bean counters have calculated that by saving weight you gain performance at less engineering cost, £ for £ :idea:

Honda also claim the CIvic will have sharper steering and a stiffer chassis .... the only potential flaw is the move away from independent suspension but I guess we wont know until someone drives it

Interestingly, it's also rumoured that Honda may be adopting the RR tag from the bikes to deliver a more extreme track-day focussed version :D

Regards

The original 'R's from Japan (NSX, Integra DC2 and Civic EK9) were all painstakingly analysed and built to make them uncompromising driving machines. Hondas engineers didn't care whether the cabin noise was too loud or the suspension was unforgiving - they just went ahead and made exactly what they believed in - a superbly precise, agile and infinitely rewarding car to drive - nothing else mattered.

What we're looking at now (and with the previous CTR) is Honda making full use of a brand\badge but in doing so diluting everything it stood for originally. In fairness to them they know they are on to a winner with the 'Type R' brand and the marketing machine will milk it for all it's worth (VW are as guilty with the GTi badge!). The current 'Type Rs' are pretty much specced as the old school VTi's from the 90's (good engine and all the creature comforts too) so IMHO the 'R' has lost it's clout and direction ... unless you're an accountant of course!

If the emphasis were totally on driving then why the HUGE wheels, body kit, chavvy lights etc? (note the size of the TYPE R logo!!!!)

Oh, if you think I'm being harsh - Try and get a ride in an EK9 (96-99) Civic Type R - you'll not wipe the smile of your face for weeks! :D

~Phil.

[Senninha]

HI Phil,

I've not had chance to play with the EK9 but have spent many miles on track and the Queens highway in the DC2 ITR and I know exactly what you mean about that smile :)

I guess the marketing men will argue that without the 'plastic' and stickers they'll loose their market.

As a devoted Honda fan (2 wheels & four) I suppose I'm crossing my fingers for Honda's engineers to win over the accountants etc. Maybe thats where the RR will fit, leaving the R for the Chavs??

I guess we'll know soon enough who has won and I'm sure I know who would get our vote!

regards

[TheQuietOne]

Speaking of what Chavs can do to cars i once saw this Prelude..... :twisted:

I saw one of those chavmobile Preludes last week in Derby, did the one you saw look like this? Someone had nicked the spoiler from this one though... :cry:

:wink: Matt :wink:

[TheQuietOne]

I beg to differ Mr Spanners ... unlike ALL other manufacturers at present, this concept Type R is actually lighter than the model it replaces according to Honda. Maybe the bean counters have calculated that by saving weight you gain performance at less engineering cost, £ for £ :idea:

Honda also claim the CIvic will have sharper steering and a stiffer chassis .... the only potential flaw is the move away from independent suspension but I guess we wont know until someone drives it

Interestingly, it's also rumoured that Honda may be adopting the RR tag from the bikes to deliver a more extreme track-day focussed version :D

Regards

The original 'R's from Japan (NSX, Integra DC2 and Civic EK9) were all painstakingly analysed and built to make them uncompromising driving machines. Hondas engineers didn't care whether the cabin noise was too loud or the suspension was unforgiving - they just went ahead and made exactly what they believed in - a superbly precise, agile and infinitely rewarding car to drive - nothing else mattered.

What we're looking at now (and with the previous CTR) is Honda making full use of a brand\badge but in doing so diluting everything it stood for originally. In fairness to them they know they are on to a winner with the 'Type R' brand and the marketing machine will milk it for all it's worth (VW are as guilty with the GTi badge!). The current 'Type Rs' are pretty much specced as the old school VTi's from the 90's (good engine and all the creature comforts too) so IMHO the 'R' has lost it's clout and direction ... unless you're an accountant of course!

If the emphasis were totally on driving then why the HUGE wheels, body kit, chavvy lights etc? (note the size of the TYPE R logo!!!!)

Oh, if you think I'm being harsh - Try and get a ride in an EK9 (96-99) Civic Type R - you'll not wipe the smile of your face for weeks! :D

~Phil.

From purist point of view I agree, but having done 50,000 miles in a DC2, 74,000 miles in an '02 CTR and a fair few in a '98 CTR the most fulfilling on the road when pushing was the Teg, and the best all round performer was the '02 CTR. It was less focused but more rewarding all round, and oh so smooth at all times.

When Honda made the second phase CTR they made a car that you could live with at all times, take pride in and run comfortably with the usual reliability. I don't think that should be underestimated, and as said before on here if you drive any car of the Type-R / NSX pedigree on the roads at its full capability you are being irresponsible - making a car as enjoyable sub 70 mph is no bad thing and the CTR was this much more than any of the others.

IMHO the CTR was not a bead on an abacus at Honda head office, it was a move to make 80% of the ITR magic available to a wider audience, in a more commercially viable package. Whilst it is fine to pick holes in their corporate machine, but where does the revenue to develop new cars, new technology and ultimately the new NSX come from if they only make fantastic cars and sell very few of them?

I also ran a '99 Civic Vti Hatchback for 60,000 miles and I can draw no similarities between that and the CTR...it was nothing in comparison, but still a hugely enjoyable car to drive when you're 20!

Anyway - interesting thread guys...
:D

[UltraViolet]

Oi - stop blaming the accountants. It is the marketing department that wil be far more responsible.

Accountants wouldn't like 20" wheels any more than engineers.

As for the 'R' heritage. Well, I agree to a point that the later 'R's are not in the original ethos band, but as the R badge hasn't been on cars for that long.... I don't feel the crime is comparable to say the MG or RS badging on 'hotted up' family cars.

The first time the R appeared on a car was obviously when they lightened and fine tuned the NSX and badged it NSX-R.

Then the DC2 first in Japan, then over here. The car had some serious weight reductions and engineering to produce a fine handling machine - but it did still have heavy recaro seats, electric windows, central locking - so hardly a stripped out racer.

The EK9 was developed for a race series and so the originals came with standard VTi style interior (only with wind up windows etc) ready to be ditched in favour of race seats. Then the version more readily marketable (and much more common) came with the recaro interior, electric windows etc.

So, whether we like it or not - the market demands certain goodies. Bringing out a 'range topping sports model' without these goodies would raise eyebrows, but not revenue.

The EP3 hit the market and was a massive sucess - it ticked all the boxes the market dictated. The enthusiasts would have liked it to be lighter, have a more characterful engine, better steering and the LSD fitted to the JDM cars ....... but the people placing their deposits wanted the package on offer.

Ideally, it would be nice if they could offer you a 'base' R with then a list of option packages so people could spec the car as they want it. Full fat (all the goodies), or Esspresso (a shot of high octane, no extras).

The only new civic I've been in so far was the 1.4 and I was impressed.

If when the new R comes, it doesn't have the silly huge wheels - then I would be interested to see how it performs. Better still if the RR is the Esspresso version! :twisted:

[Mr_Spanners]

Hey, it's nice to have a discussion about Type-R (and Honda) without any dummy-spitting or teddy\cot issues!!! :wink:

Whether the accountants or marketing gurus are to blame for the EP3 or the new CTR the fact remains that an idea based on engineering prowess has been bastardised to make money. As one of the ex-DC2 Integra owners on here I can honestly say I'm saddened by Honda's move away from niche models and specialist engineering in favour of mass appeal and market trends - surely there is room for both when you consider Hondas wealth (financially and technically) and repeated use of the 'we're a maverick car company' slant in their own promotions???

Seems to me that Honda want to trade on their prior acheivements (in the 80's and 90's), reap the financial rewards in the 21st century and become one of the 'big boys' in the global auto market.

Outgoing Models

DC5 Integra to be discontinued later this year - no replacement
Prelude Discontinued 2000
S2000 - Facelifted in 04 likely to cease production in 2007 with sales continuing late into 2008 - no current replacement plans
NSX - Discontinued 2005 - replacement (under a different monniker) due in 2009\10
CRX - Discontinued 1997

New Models Since 2000

FRV (Civic Platform)
IMA (Civic Platform)
Jazz

Anyone fancy a common rail diesel Civic or Accord??? :roll:

~Phil.

[Nick Graves]

There was one shot, where one could see rear track control links, like the Civic Si Coupe.

Hopefully, the 3 door ditches the rear torsion beam, so it's only 'sold out' at the front end.

PS - nice pics above of some mid-engined supercar. Looks like it's made of ally, or something.

[Nick Graves]

Hey, it's nice to have a discussion about Type-R (and Honda) without any dummy-spitting or teddy\cot issues!!! :wink:

Whether the accountants or marketing gurus are to blame for the EP3 or the new CTR the fact remains that an idea based on engineering prowess has been bastardised to make money. As one of the ex-DC2 Integra owners on here I can honestly say I'm saddened by Honda's move away from niche models and specialist engineering in favour of mass appeal and market trends - surely there is room for both when you consider Hondas wealth (financially and technically) and repeated use of the 'we're a maverick car company' slant in their own promotions???

Seems to me that Honda want to trade on their prior acheivements (in the 80's and 90's), reap the financial rewards in the 21st century and become one of the 'big boys' in the global auto market.

Outgoing Models

DC5 Integra to be discontinued later this year - no replacement
Prelude Discontinued 2000
S2000 - Facelifted in 04 likely to cease production in 2007 with sales continuing late into 2008 - no current replacement plans
NSX - Discontinued 2005 - replacement (under a different monniker) due in 2009\10
CRX - Discontinued 1997

New Models Since 2000

FRV (Civic Platform)
IMA (Civic Platform)
Jazz

Anyone fancy a common rail diesel Civic or Accord??? :roll:

~Phil.

Coudn't agree more.

TBH, Honda are very good at reacting to trends, being small n' lively, like their cars used to be.

They have put in a lot of 'Global truck' models (Element, F-RV, RDX, Ridgeline, etc) which is where the money is. Saloons are dying fast, which is why even M-B are at it.

Thing is, most modern products from most modern manufacturers leave me a bit cold, with everyone 'me-too' ing everyone else.

I do hope Fukui-san shakes Honda up a bit, or I'll be stuck with old Japanese cars forever!